Hey,
I've been trying to figure out what happened.
I use to take Uechi-Ryu about 10 years ago and studied it for almost 4 years. I only got to Gokyu (green belt). I have a family member that stayed in it and is now 3rd Dan.
I have recently decided to go back and study Uechi and was informed that there is a "new school" of teaching. I performed my Sanchin and was told that they no longer are as ridgid and was more focus on speed. But it seemed to be no technique involved it felt very sloppy and looked very sloppy. I saw some circle blocks and they looked so fragile and incomplete. Very timid and mouse like. We were always told to make them big and strong so that in real life you tend to do things a lot smaller so the thought was that you'd do them correctly in a real life situation.
Then we had some time to throw some punches at a punching bag and I was told to pull my punches and to just snap them out quickly. I don't know if this is because I'm just starting but I remember always being told to punch as if you were going through the object.
My family member that is a 3rd dan said he studied for a few classes at this place to see what it was like and said that while doing some roundhouse / blocks he was shocked at the lack of conditioning. when he moved in on his block to stop him earlier he apparently hurt their shin. He said it wasn't anything out the norm for his dojo that he studies at to do this type of blocking and it wasn't anything he felt should have hurt him.
All in all I'm kinda unhappy with this change. I think I'll stick it out with this dojo until the end of summer when my former sensei opens up a new place where he teaches "traditional?" Uechi-Ryu. This is the sensei that my family member teaches with.
Is this all true? what are some honest opinions of it all and non bias ones. I want opinions that explain the advantages and disadvantages of this "new school" way of teaching Uechi.
What has happened?
Moderator: Available
What has happened?
Last edited by eSc on Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
First, it's always a can of worms offering opinions about how others teach and interpret their Uechi style.
I will tell you this. If it looks like it isn't right, it probably isn't. Trust your instincts. The kinds of complaints you have and the opinions you share sound reasonable to me.
There are many valid ways to interpret and practice Uechi Ryu. Furthermore, there are many combat (self defense) and non-combat reasons to practice a traditional martial art. It starts and ends with the martial piece. But sport karate, health, fitness, social aspects, and an appreciation of asthetics are all perfectly reasonable reasons to come to class each day. If worrying about the bad guy coming around the next bush is what it takes to keep you doing Sanchin, then either you are an unusual person or you're going to burn out.
That being said, form and function must go hand-in-hand. The reason and the way to do things must revolve around effectiveness, efficiency, and self-preservation.
What IS "out" in the eyes of many are the "extreme" forms of Uechi where people are preoccupied with beating the &%$# out of students standing in Sanchin stance. This is a distraction from the martial way, a misunderstanding of what it takes to survive and even dominate an attack, and a path to cult activity. Yes, conditioning is important. Uechi people distinguish themselves by their conditioning, as do boxers. The physical and mental resiliance is what takes many through the reality and the ugliness of a fight. But rule number 1 is to try not to get hit in the first place. Better yet, anticipate the agression and pre-empt it. Given the strong likelihood that you'll face a blade or a firearm on the street, learning to stand and take it is Neanderthal at best, and suicidal at worst.
As for attacks on the bag, well there are many ways to hit in Uechi Ryu. There ARE whipping hits, such as the backfist, the toe kick, and hidden cobra strikes. There are also shearing and raking attacks. But the bread-and-butter attack right in the body of Sanchin teaches a principle that Jimmy Malone preaches in his pressure point classes - time on target. The thrusting techniques are actually two phase. The first half is spent getting hand to target with as much velocity as possible. The second half is spent driving your mass into the target you've just contacted. It's like a 4x4 going from overdrive to first-gear-low-range in a flash.
Yes, circles should be big. But remember that in Uechi, a circle is just a circle. Sometimes it's a block. Sometimes it's a grab. Sometimes it's an escape. Sometimes it's a throw. Sometimes it's a setup for a lock or a blood-choke hold. And sometims it's an attack. The main thing to focus on is making it reasonably large in size and general in purpose, and learn how to get your center mass to drive the circle while keeping the arm/hand properly in front of you.
Keep an open mind and an empty cup; you may learn a thing or two from this person. Maybe this teacher can learn something from YOU. But if it doesn't look or feel right, don't waste your time - no matter the pedigree.
Good luck!
- Bill
I will tell you this. If it looks like it isn't right, it probably isn't. Trust your instincts. The kinds of complaints you have and the opinions you share sound reasonable to me.
There are many valid ways to interpret and practice Uechi Ryu. Furthermore, there are many combat (self defense) and non-combat reasons to practice a traditional martial art. It starts and ends with the martial piece. But sport karate, health, fitness, social aspects, and an appreciation of asthetics are all perfectly reasonable reasons to come to class each day. If worrying about the bad guy coming around the next bush is what it takes to keep you doing Sanchin, then either you are an unusual person or you're going to burn out.
That being said, form and function must go hand-in-hand. The reason and the way to do things must revolve around effectiveness, efficiency, and self-preservation.
What IS "out" in the eyes of many are the "extreme" forms of Uechi where people are preoccupied with beating the &%$# out of students standing in Sanchin stance. This is a distraction from the martial way, a misunderstanding of what it takes to survive and even dominate an attack, and a path to cult activity. Yes, conditioning is important. Uechi people distinguish themselves by their conditioning, as do boxers. The physical and mental resiliance is what takes many through the reality and the ugliness of a fight. But rule number 1 is to try not to get hit in the first place. Better yet, anticipate the agression and pre-empt it. Given the strong likelihood that you'll face a blade or a firearm on the street, learning to stand and take it is Neanderthal at best, and suicidal at worst.
As for attacks on the bag, well there are many ways to hit in Uechi Ryu. There ARE whipping hits, such as the backfist, the toe kick, and hidden cobra strikes. There are also shearing and raking attacks. But the bread-and-butter attack right in the body of Sanchin teaches a principle that Jimmy Malone preaches in his pressure point classes - time on target. The thrusting techniques are actually two phase. The first half is spent getting hand to target with as much velocity as possible. The second half is spent driving your mass into the target you've just contacted. It's like a 4x4 going from overdrive to first-gear-low-range in a flash.
Yes, circles should be big. But remember that in Uechi, a circle is just a circle. Sometimes it's a block. Sometimes it's a grab. Sometimes it's an escape. Sometimes it's a throw. Sometimes it's a setup for a lock or a blood-choke hold. And sometims it's an attack. The main thing to focus on is making it reasonably large in size and general in purpose, and learn how to get your center mass to drive the circle while keeping the arm/hand properly in front of you.
Keep an open mind and an empty cup; you may learn a thing or two from this person. Maybe this teacher can learn something from YOU. But if it doesn't look or feel right, don't waste your time - no matter the pedigree.
Good luck!
- Bill
Thats great,
I don't think I'm in any position to say what someone is doing is wrong. Like I said it just didn't feel or look right at all to me. I am going to stay in it for the summer because there are some aspects of it that I can see are more practical then how I was previously taught. Im certain that I will learn something out of it. I am taking it with an open mind and if after the summer I still don't enjoy it I will look at going to my previous sensei if he has his dojo opened by then.
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
I don't think I'm in any position to say what someone is doing is wrong. Like I said it just didn't feel or look right at all to me. I am going to stay in it for the summer because there are some aspects of it that I can see are more practical then how I was previously taught. Im certain that I will learn something out of it. I am taking it with an open mind and if after the summer I still don't enjoy it I will look at going to my previous sensei if he has his dojo opened by then.
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
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Spitkicker
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Korea
- Contact:
eSc
Like you, I had 10 years in between Uechi classes. And like you I was a bit puzzled by the differences. Some was just natural differences between the instructors, but some was how the style has progressed through the years. With my current instructor's encouragement, I've tended to take from both and try and make it my own. I'm not saying I do that well, but it seems to be a worthwhile effort.
Definitely take the opportunity to learn some new aspects from the instructor you have right now.
Like you, I had 10 years in between Uechi classes. And like you I was a bit puzzled by the differences. Some was just natural differences between the instructors, but some was how the style has progressed through the years. With my current instructor's encouragement, I've tended to take from both and try and make it my own. I'm not saying I do that well, but it seems to be a worthwhile effort.
Definitely take the opportunity to learn some new aspects from the instructor you have right now.
Glenn
Oh I don't plan on not going to this dojo. I'm quite excited at the aspect of having a new view on the art. I am just trying to get some feedback on what sort of structure Uechi has evolved into in hopes that I will still enjoy it.
All the people at this place seem very friendly and each has a story to tell and I know I'll learn a lot from them.
All the people at this place seem very friendly and each has a story to tell and I know I'll learn a lot from them.
Structure? We have structure?!?!eSc wrote: I am just trying to get some feedback on what sort of structure Uechi has evolved into in hopes that I will still enjoy it.
Seriously though, structure within a style does not mean all instructors have to be copies of each other. Most have gone their own paths, and taken together all Uechi dojo form a spectrum of possibilities. Ordinarily if you went to two Uechi dojo you would see some differences but they would still be pretty close. Your unique situation is that it seems, based on your description, that you have been in two dojo that are closer to the opposite ends of the spectrum from each other. Hence you're experiencing a bit of culture shock, where what you saw in the new dojo was quite different from your expectations. Sounds like you're adapting though, and have the right attitude.
Of course, even though a style will have its reasonable spectrum of instructors, you still have to be on the lookout for those who really do not know what they are doing. Every style has its share of flakes.
Glenn
Oh there's no doubt that the instructors at this location are capable.
I think you're right though. I think I may have it ingrained into my head of what I expect Uechi to be and am a little weary of change. I've only ever had one instructor and only know of that style of teaching.
I think it's time to start fresh with a clean open mind and see where it takes me.
I think you're right though. I think I may have it ingrained into my head of what I expect Uechi to be and am a little weary of change. I've only ever had one instructor and only know of that style of teaching.
I think it's time to start fresh with a clean open mind and see where it takes me.
Evolution can take place in pockets, not questioning the "evolution" especially if it passes the test of "good Uechi.eSc wrote: I am just trying to get some feedback on what sort of structure Uechi has evolved into in hopes that I will still enjoy it.
However, walk into it like you first did...is it what YOU want?
Only 10 short years since you left? No question the Uechi you remembered still exist.
Léo
George has a good dojo list at:eSc wrote:Well to help me find out if it is what I'm looking for I would like to know if anyone has a list of active Uechi-Ryu dojo's. Any of them including the "new style" and old school ones.
http://uechi-ryu.com/pages/dojolist
Glenn
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Guest
Esc, interesting observation about Uechi changing. I left for around two decades. I was lucky and hooked up with some solid people to train with in Edmonton when I resurfaced.
I also noticed that not all dojo's were created in the same mold. I use to train in Maloney Sensei's dojo in Halifax. It would appear that all the apples did not fall directly under the tree.
I felt for some time that Uechi had some how become diluted. Today I no longer care if it has or not. I'm only interested in trying to make my Uechi better!
I think it's buyer beware when shopping for a dojo to train. Good thing most groups let you have a free work out to check them out.
I also noticed that not all dojo's were created in the same mold. I use to train in Maloney Sensei's dojo in Halifax. It would appear that all the apples did not fall directly under the tree.
I felt for some time that Uechi had some how become diluted. Today I no longer care if it has or not. I'm only interested in trying to make my Uechi better!
I think it's buyer beware when shopping for a dojo to train. Good thing most groups let you have a free work out to check them out.
