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 Post subject: Tan Ren or Hojo Undo
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Tishomingo, Oklahoma
Ok, I think this may seem like a really dumb question.
Being a student of Shotokan this is something new to me.

What is the difference between Tan Ren and Hojo Undo?
I have pulled up a load of web sights and they both seem
to be the same exercises with the same equipment.

I have some of this equipment such as the chishi and the
nigiri game and know some of the very basic exercises.
Very basic.
Any info would help .

Thanks a bunch.
Tomahawk.

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 Post subject: Hojo Undo
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:28 am 
Hojoundo
Basic Techniques
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sokto geri
Circle block, snap side kick

Shomen geri
Circle block, front kick

Maiwashi zuki
Circle block, hook punch

Hajike uke haraken zuki
Snapping high block, punch, side block punch. All with the same hand. This exercise does not alternate.

Shomen zuki
Circle block, punch, palm block, punch. Block with the front hand, attack from the rear.

Shuto uch ura uch shoken zuki
Circle block, chop, backfist, one-knucke punch

Hiji zuki
Circle block, elbow strike forward, to the side, and to the rear. This exercise does not alternate.

Tenshun zen soko geri
Step and pivot circle block with the rear hand, front leg, front kick.

Tenshun co soko geri
Step and pivot circle block with the rear hand, rear leg, front kick.

Tenshun shoken zuki
Step and pivot circle block with the rear hand, front side, one-knuckle punch

Shomen hajike
Shuffle, block downward, eye-strike.

Kono shipa uch ura uch
Blocks with the backs of the hands. Block up, down, out, and in.

Kono shipa uch yoko uch
Blocks with the backs of the hands. Block side-to-side beginning toward your front leg.

Shin ko kyu
Deep Breathing - Breathe in through your nose, and out through your mouth. Take at least as long to exhale as you took to inhale.
Except where specified, begin the exercise by blocking using the "rear hand". By this I mean the left hand when you're in a right foot forward stance, and the right hand when the left foot is in front.

Most, but not all of the exercises alternate. Those exercises that follow the tenshun sequences involve both hands simultaneously doing the same things so alternation is not a concern. They are occasionally done in separate sets for each side of the body, but only occasionally. I have noted the two earlier exercises that do not alternate.

Counting - use one count for each movement and count 2 or 3 sets of 8 for each set of each exercise. For those exerciese before the tenshun sequences, do two sets: one with the right foot forward and one with the left foot forward. For the tenshun exercises on, only do one set. Once you're comfortable, experiment with a varied count. Combine two or more movements into one count. For example in shomen zuki, pair each block with a punch timed to immediately follow it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17143
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I believe Danny (not a Uechi practitioner) was looking for a more generic meaning here.

I have a source for you, Danny, from a Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu site. This is a keeper - worth bookmarking for you students of traditional karate.

Karate Glossary

In it...

hojo undo : subsidiary exercises

oyo-tan-ren : all basic techniques

Also consider...

junbi undo : warm-up exercises

Too bad we can't get someone like Nestor or Gary K by here to articulate the subtleties here. But that's a start.

I agree that the meanings seem similar. My guess though is this. Oyo-tan-ren refers more to karate techniques - sequences taken out of kata, without movement. Hojo undo has a slightly broader meaning. It could be oyo-tan-ren. It could also be the same with movement. And it might even be something like deep breathing (a.k.a. autogenic breathing), which is a martial technique only in the broadest sense.

- Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Tishomingo, Oklahoma
Thank you very much Gentlemen.

And now for a bit of good news.
I live and practice in Southern Oklahoma so you
can imagine I am very limited in what art I can study.
Pretty much Tae kwon Do and ShotoKan.
Well I have found a Uechi-Ryu Dojo in
Denton Texas. That is not too far from me :D
I'm going to work my schedule to where I can go there at least 2 or 3 times a month and if all goes well, hell I may just move to Denton! lol.

Thanks again Gentlemen.
I'll get the name of the Sensei and post it here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Tishomingo, Oklahoma
Mr. Glasheen,

The Sensei in Denton is a Mr. John Ray, 5th Dan.
I'm going to shoot him an e-mail and see what happens.

I have been lurking around this sight for a while now and the more I read and see the more fascinated I get.

Wish me luck! 8O


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17143
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Danny

Oh my - you have found a gem! By all means get your arse over there and work with him.

When you see him, give him my best.

Mr. Ray, if memory serves me correctly, will also be an excellent source for the art of Iaido (traditional Japanese swordsmanship). And I believe he is affiliated with the Kenyukai, a group headed up by Shinjo Kiyohide. We have our own Kenyukai neighbors (Rik Lostrito) in our neck of the woods.

Please report back, Danny!

- Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Tishomingo, Oklahoma
Yes Sir I will!

Starting over at 39 years of age seems a little spooky 8O
I can hardly wait to start my new direction in Karate.

I'll contact Mr. Ray and take it from there and keep you posted.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Here is Ray sensei's website:

http://www.dentondojo.com/

Rich

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 Post subject: Texas Uechi Ryu
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:25 pm 
I think another Kenukai affiliate there is Mike Nazur. He is also an Iaido student. Nazur was promoted to Godan by Shinjo Kiyohide last year in Largo, Florida.

His direct Sensei is Kyoshi Peter Kellog who has lived in Okinawa these past 25 years or more and is a senior student of Shinjo Kiyohide Sensei.

If you are lucky and link up with the Texas folks you'll have mojo hojo undo :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Tishomingo, Oklahoma
Well, I sent Ray Sensei an e-mail yesterday and got a great
response!
He was very nice and encouraged me to join his small
group to train any time.
Denton Texas is just about an hour from me, so it will be well worth the drive.
I'm going to happily show up with white Gi and white belt.
Wish me luck.

Tomahawk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17143
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Rich and I are jealous!

Send him our best.

- Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Tishomingo, Oklahoma
I'll surely do it Gentlemen.
I can hardly wait for this.
The people I work with and my daughter think I have lost my mind.

Tomahawk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:20 pm
Posts: 2117
Location: Virginia
An hour away bahhhh :wink: Besides isn't the speed limit 75 mph out there??

I've visited Richmond Virginia a few times to work with Bill Sensei... 360 miles round trip.

Since this is all new to you the trips going there (anticipation of new stuff to learn), and driving home (reviewing what you learned) will be great. It's like falling in love.. everything is so exciting.. new things to try out and explore.. :twisted: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Tishomingo, Oklahoma
OOh!
Does that little grinning devil mean I'm going to get knocked around a bit 8O
Good I hope so 8)

360 miles makes an hour drive sound just fine to me.
From what I have read on Ray Sensei's web sight,
he has a class on Saturday mornings. Now that would be perfect. I'm going to make a go of setting up a practice with them either this comming Saturday or the next.
Couldn't do it today as I'm getting ready for a court date Monday morning but I think next Sat. will be fair game :) .
I'll keep you posted. Thanks gentlemen.

Tomahawk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Tishomingo, Oklahoma
Yessir! 8:30 a.m. to 9:45

I'm loving this :D

Tomahawk


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