What makes a shodan?

[Dana Sheets]

Just want to be clear -

The Uechi system contains the strategies you need to fight empty handed against someone with a blunt weapon or larger knife if folks train their bodies and their minds. However Uechi doesn't offer tactical strategies to deal with modern weapons like handguns, pepper spray, tazers and the like. You can certainlly use the movements of Uechi to accomlish defense against modern weapons - but in Mejin era China where Kanbun studied these kinds of weapons were not part of the habitual acts of phyical violence. So in that sense those tractical strategies are not inherent to Uechi-Ryu.

Once you've gotten outside training in good tactical methods to deal with these weapons from experts who do so on a daily basis - you can then go back and search for any matching principles within Uechi.

[JimHawkins]

What constitutes good fighting ability?

I made at least one clear suggestion of measurement:

I think a good example of a reasonable and modern testing venue today would be a scenario drill test, as in the Fast Defense training. IMO a shodan should be able to handle a realistic sd scenario in order to make shodan.. If they can't then they have no business IMO being handed a 'license' to teach "self defense." Most students when they come to the dojo want to learn how to fight, how to 'defend themselves' and so when the true focus of the training, teachers or school is something else then these folks are being taken for a ride.

If the system is a standup system then it is not all that hard to measure competent standup fighting ability for a given system, and even easier to detect poor skill, the teacher should know it when he/she sees it, and if not, then that's another problem.

I can easily tell when a student is competent in WCK as they will whoop butt on other students in chi sao and sparring. There is an old WCK saying that goes, “The student with better hands is the true senior.”

Alex Gong was a very good fighter in the ring, but his life ended tragically in a needless street confrontation. Even a term like self defense can mean many things.

The point is: What is the focus of the training? Is it combat, or ‘self defense?’

Just because some Top Gun pilot's WILL get shot down in combat, they are not going to shut down the program, and let the would be trainees go meditate instead. It's about percentages, in fact, failure of training, if it can be detected, should make the training better.

The question is if the path of training is focused on some major part of combative training, or is it mainly something else, like an art form?

Long time student's will hopefully know the difference, but newer student's will most often not. And as such the folks running these organizations need to be honest with their students and themselves what exactly they are training for; not always easy to do when things often boil down to dollars and cents.

[MikeK]

I think self defense is one of the most nebulus things to train for since it is just so vast a subject, so to me it's hard to come up with an adequte SD test. Now for me when/if I ever make shodan I think I should have a very good grasp of core abilities and knowledge to build on. Will those core abilities help me in a self defense situation or be a better fighter? Yes. Will I be a great fighter or be able to handle every self defense situation? No, but I now have a foundation to work off of.

The question is if the path of training is focused on some major part of combative training, or is it mainly something else, like an art form?

And that's a very good question. I don't see learning an art and combative training as being separate. I really believe that one can support the other and that's how I approach it. Karate training is not only for use in combat but something that can be used everyday in the most mundane ways.

Oh no, I think I've jumped the Lotus!

[jorvik]

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"I think self defense is one of the most nebulus things to train for since it is just so vast a subject, so to me it's hard to come up with an adequte SD test."

I don't think that at all .....to me it is quite obvious. somebody looks threatening you raise your gun and shoot him, if needs be.....same applies to karate. you fire your Karate at him. It only becomes a problem when you don't attack first....when you try to defend, and it's a problem we must all learn to overcome.
Look at women's rape defence .........I've seen things like girls doing wrist locks, or rolling around on the ground but think of it logically as soon as the threat is percieved .she should fire off a nukite to the eyes, followed by a boshinken to the windpipe and a hammer fist to the temple.......that is the kind of mindset you need

[MikeK]

Guess I just don't have that mindset.

So by your reasoning a shodan is more than capable of handling any and all self defense situations, and somebody just has to look threatening for me to shoot him or maim him. So what are the criterea for someone to look threatening enough to cap before they've taken it physical?

[jorvik]

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"So by your reasoning a shodan is more than capable of handling any and all self defense situations".....titles Mike ....somebody who knows the moves you don't have to call them a Shodan, call them a Sch*tthead if you like
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and somebody just has to look threatening for me to shoot him or maim him

Well what's the alternative you wait till he's broken a bottle in your face and then go to Kata number 4 .....move number 7
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So what are the criterea for someone to look threatening enough to cap before they've taken it physical?
We live in different cultures Mike...I cannot legally own a handgun or carry a weapon ....so it comes down to personal responsibility.....you make your choices and you take your chances, I can't tell you what they are.just as in the same way I can't tell you the best techniques for you, you have to make those kind of decisions for your self.
It's all about personal choices.if you think that a coloured belt confers something to you.well that's fine and dandy............my personal approach tells me it doesn't confer anything to me, that doesn't mean that I reject a lot of what Karate teaches.it just means that I take reponsibility for what I do....for how I defend myself, the tools that I use and when I use them.......if I am in a violent confrontation I wll probably be on my own, I won't have Sensei ther to guide me, it will be my fight........that is how I think.............and what I train for

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Anybody experience the Shodan Shuffle?

Mike, we called this shodanitis way back when...........I have been accused of this more times than I know........But, and I have been thinking about this a lot, what do you call it when a brown, a green, or some version of a white belt quits? different name for quitting, even though the reason could be the same......

what similarities exist in the choice (of quitting or more likely, of taking some time off) if you are a black belt versus a non-black belt........

I had quit Uechi after reaching green belt (had quit school as well) and only came back when I was going back to school again.........Since the Uechi club that I attended first was at a university (Brandeis U), not attending the university was pretty obvious........and soemwhat embarrassing for me at the time

My reasons for returning to Uechi were: Every single black belt that I knew via Brandeis Uechi had completed their degree and had reached a certain level of success in their career choice. The attitude that was devloped in becoming a black belt (and useful in self defense situations) could also serve them in their chosen professions and in the path of getting to their various roles in life. THat was what I wanted (and the ability to protect myself was a bonus).

After several years of working towards a bb, upon completion, there were many other goals that I had put on hold and was now going to pursue. I completed a BS, a MEd, bought a house and got married (and divorced). All of these things kept me from the dojo in large measure.......but i wouldnt see these choices as something bad, but simply the course of life........

Finally, the absence of weapons (or near total absence of weapons) from the traditional uechi curriculum led me (under the guidance of a Uechi Teacher) to spend more than a decade practicing my weapons training outside the dojo (and moving across continent, starting a new life with a new wife).

The time that I spent training with weapons (bo, jo, tonfa, 3 sectional, nuchaku, knife, fan, escrima, etc) wasnt wasted time, although officially, it does not count toward uechi training.

As far as I am concerned the ten plus years I spent doing weapons was plenty beneficial........even if they officially dont count

[Jim Robinson]

Decades ago I brought my first brown belt from Maine to the Provicence Dojo to take his shodan test. His name was Pete. Pete passed the test and after, a crowed of us went to a local restaurant to celebrate. My good friend and Uechi veteran Ed Rafferty toasted Pete and said "Congradulations on your promotion Pete but remember, shodans don't know sh*t."
We all had a good laugh.
In many respects Ed was right because no matter how you look at it the shodan rank is nothing more then an advanced beginner.
Jim Robinson

[Guest]

Some Shodans stay that way because they never leave the uechi nest. Sure, they make rank, Nidan, Sandan, etc... but guess what? They don't progress because they are still doing the same things over and over again. Hell, they are tested on the same stuff, so what is the difference? How good can your sanchin get?

They don't specialize in anything. They don't seek a particular area of study.. they just commit themselves to the uechi preservation society.

whatever.