FireDragon Test Update

Bill's forum was the first! All subjects are welcome. Participation by all encouraged.

Moderator: Available

Post Reply
User avatar
Bill Glasheen
Posts: 17299
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

FireDragon Test Update

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Folks

Please be patient. Rich and I are discussing the details.

A sneak peek... Basically what I want to do is convert all scores to a 0 to 100 scale. This is what both the Army and The Marines do for their respective tests, which are similar to what we did at camp. (But our test was more complete.) They each have a slightly different way of doing it.

It isn't as easy as you think. As I suspected, there isn't a linear relationship between counts of an event and the score they give someone on the 100 point scale. And when I look at their tables, it's obvious to me that someone came in and "eyeballed" places where the slope changes in the conversion. It's not very elegant, and difficult to twiddle with later on.

What I am doing is setting up a spreadsheet where I can twiddle with the parameters and see what I want on the back end. This is particularly important for categories such as women's pull-ups, where everyone is clustered around either a hang or 1 or 2 pull-ups except for this wonderful genetic freak who did 12. If I made 12 a "100" on a linear scale, the rest of the women would be screwed. There are ways to do "caps" and "nonlinear" relationships. It just takes some twiddling.

Rich and I already have had conversations over what is reasonable for the "100 score" caps on these events. I also have an idea of what I want for median scores and such. It just a matter now of twiddling with the formulas.

I told you it wasn't as easy as it looks, Fedele! :lol:

The way I plan on doing it is the way they do it in the Marines. Once I get the main scale down, then we'll put different cut-offs for different age bands. Just as with the Marines, these cut-off(s) will separate the real men from the men from the boys, and the same for the women. :wink: I have some ideas about what those age bands should be based on how The Marines did the same.

Lots of progress already, and almost done. 8)

- Bill

P.S. I already know of one change we will make next time. We will do max number of sit-ups in 2 minutes rather than the minute which we did at camp. Abdominals are more endurance muscles, and we need to push people into the glycolysis range of energy production to see what they are made of. That's longer than for simple power events (phosphocreatine system) but shorter than for the endurance events like the mile run (aerobic metabolism). The Marines use that same time limit for their test.

Translation - we will make it burn. :twisted:

But this will not affect our ability to differentiate people for this first run of the test. It's just an improvement next time around.
CJG
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:17 am

Numbers Game

Post by CJG »

Gosh Bill, your complementary review of my stats is creating a persona I'm not sure I can live up to :oops: You're a Numbers Guy, let's talk relative strength as long as you and Rich are applying military methods to this. Does the participant's weight factor into the calculation? If someone weighs let's say, less than a buck, are the pull-ups a fair test of her strength relative to others' overall strength or more accurately her strength relative to her own body weight?

Fedele's stats hold at wonderfully freakish because he packs a lot of extra muscle weight :wink:
User avatar
Bill Glasheen
Posts: 17299
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

Post by Bill Glasheen »

CJ

You have nothing to live up to. Your abilities, your passion for life, and your willingness to put yourself on the line all speak for themselves. I could say the same for the most part about everyone who took the test, by the way. You just make a good poster child for the spirit of the test and those who took part in it. :wink:
You're a Numbers Guy, let's talk relative strength as long as you and Rich are applying military methods to this. Does the participant's weight factor into the calculation? If someone weighs let's say, less than a buck, are the pull-ups a fair test of her strength relative to others' overall strength or more accurately her strength relative to her own body weight?

Fedele's stats hold at wonderfully freakish because he packs a lot of extra muscle weight. :wink:
CJ, I feel qualified to say that you have no reason to discount your performance. I met my spouse and the mother of my two boys in the weight room at U.Va. At the time she was a competitive bodybuilder, and was winning contests up and down the east coast. (She quit when women started getting into the 'roids and GH.) After she and I started going out, I would follow her to contests and take pictures. I'd give her pointers inbetween the daytime posing rounds and the nighttime show.

I know buff women. You, CJ, are buff, and you are perfectly proportioned. (In other words, Fedele has nothing on you.) You'd do well in bodybuiding, as Fedele did when he competed. The only thing I would say though is - like modeling - it would be a waste of your talents. You have far too much coordination to limit yourself just to an activity that judges purely on the asthetic. And you have enough friends here that we all want you to stick around with us. 8)

That being said...

You aren't the first to raise this question. Justin brought it up. Jimmy Malone talked to me about how LEOs need to have tests based on absolute strength (as opposed to strength relative to one's size) so they can perform simple functions like make an arrest and drag an uncooperative subject from point A to point B. (But Jimmy also had Bridget take the test, and she did well on it.) And then you have Gene wondering if the little guy gets a bum rap on the standing broad jump.

Let's keep these questions "out there." So far, you all have cooperated in giving me data that will help me answer these questions over time.

Meanwhile...

We as martial arts teachers are here to make you the best martial artists you can be. That means, among other things, that we want you as fit as you can be - pound for pound. We know that there's no drug out there (now) that will make you taller, and why would we want to make you different anyhow? Furthermore, being little and not being able to handcuff and "car" someone doesn't mean you wouldn't be good at self defense. And big people, after all, make lousy fighter pilots. There's a martial role for every size person in society.

Keep that modesty, keep those questions coming, and keep inspiring us all. You and all my students often leave me in awe with your efforts and accomplishments.

- Bill
CJG
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:17 am

Post by CJG »

Very cool and very interesting, thanks Bill. Despite my recent absenteeism from the weekly classes, I've got no plans to leave the Uechi group :wink:

Have a great weekend!
Gene DeMambro
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 1998 6:01 am
Location: Weymouth, MA US of A

Post by Gene DeMambro »

Actually, Bill, I never did well in standing or long jumps, but did decent in the triple jump in HS. It was pretyy fun, too!

Never wanted to try the pole vault though 8O

Enjoy the weekend!

Gene
User avatar
RACastanet
Posts: 3744
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA

Post by RACastanet »

And big people, after all, make lousy fighter pilots.
Ted Williams might beg to differ. However, he was so tall relative to the cockpit designs he never wore a parachute... if he ejected he would have left his legs behind from just above the knee on down!

Cockpits are still very tight. I suppose that reflects the size of the typical fighter pilot.

Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
User avatar
gmattson
Site Admin
Posts: 6073
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Location: Lake Mary, Florida
Contact:

What happened Bill??

Post by gmattson »

Such a great start and now . . .????
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

Cut him some slack george , he`s busy taping his Sanchin for us 8) :wink: :lol:

Sorry Bill , just pulling the one with bells on it .....
User avatar
Glenn
Posts: 2198
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska

Post by Glenn »

Bill is a professional researcher, and in professional research there is generally a 5-10 year lag between when the results are gathered and the main publication on them is published...and that's after a lengthy review process and sign-off by the granting agencies holding the purse strings. Y'all are expecting a miracle if you are expecting a finished report to be published only a month after the experiment, he's done well to get the preliminary reports out as quickly as he has! So don't worry, his final report will come out quietly in a few years in some dry journal that only about 15 people ever read. :lol:
Glenn
Post Reply

Return to “Bill Glasheen's Dojo Roundtable”