Lying

[Dana Sheets]

Lying seems to be that sneaky little thing that happens more often than it should.

One of my current favorite magazines is "Scientific Amercian Mind" which talks about a whole range of things related to cognition and thought.

http://www.sciammind.com/

In a previous issue they talked about lying, about how everybody does it, about how good and useful it is in our society. That without lying society might even fall apart.

Until the next issue comes out - you can read the article online here:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articl ... sc=I100478

As the great American observer Mark Twain wrote more than a century ago: "Everybody lies ... every day, every hour, awake, asleep, in his dreams, in his joy, in his mourning. If he keeps his tongue still his hands, his feet, his eyes, his attitude will convey deception." Deceit is fundamental to the human condition.

Research supports Twain's conviction. One good example was a study conducted in 2002 by psychologist Robert S. Feldman of the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Feldman secretly videotaped students who were asked to talk with a stranger. He later had the students analyze their tapes and tally the number of lies they had told. A whopping 60 percent admitted to lying at least once during 10 minutes of conversation, and the group averaged 2.9 untruths in that time period. The transgressions ranged from intentional exaggeration to flat-out fibs. Interestingly, men and women lied with equal frequency; however, Feldman found that women were more likely to lie to make the stranger feel good, whereas men lied most often to make themselves look better.

Emphasis mine.

Why the difference? If you did this study around the world would you have the same results? A women always other-focused, are we socialized to always put the needs of anyone else before our own or is it simple nature?

Inside the dojo this might mean a woman not asking a question because she doesn't want to hold up the class. So she is feigning competence for the perceived benefit of others over her own needs.

Outside the dojo this might mean a woman not seeking healthcare because she believes the money to be better spent on something else for someone else. She is feigning health for the perceived benefit of others over her own needs.

Certinally deception can be a ruse for personal gain as well. But to me the study is very telling in the way women approach social interactions.

And look at the breakdown in communication - the man is telling lies about himself to look good and the woman is telling lies about herself to make him feel better. Upon this firm foundation we start our courtship rituals. And folks wonder about the divorce rate?

The nice thing about karate class is that after you ask the class if they've got it and if they have any questions - you can then ask them to train it. So you can see whether or not folks are doing it.

Some folks keep quiet in the dojo because they don't have the self-esteem to speak up - they don't want to "bother" the instructor, others fear looking incompetent in front of their peers (which is basically the same as a lack of self-esteem).

[cxt]

Dane

Recent experimentation has shown that higher primates all lie.
Even what is often considered "lower" animals--if they are considered "social" creatures, also arguably "lie."

Don't know if that makes me feel better or worse.

One of my good friends is a practiceing therapist.

She was telling me about a guy that had lied about having a REALLY good job and money to the extent that he drove a rented (supposed "company") car when they went out.

And the young lady that telling her this sad tale was a bleached blonde with a push-up bra and very expenssive made up, whom had gone under the knife in order to "look younger."

Don't know its a trait of all living things or not--but it seems pretty widespread.

Why I try not to do it--dating is hard enough without trying to be something your not.

And it ALWAYS comes out.

[jorvik]

Quote
"Interestingly, men and women lied with equal frequency; however, Feldman found that women were more likely to lie to make the stranger feel good, whereas men lied most often to make themselves look better."


Dya mean like when my wife asks if her new dress makes her butt look big?

[Stryke]

Dana to go a little of track , what do you think of the culture of a lot of martial arts places .

the trend to accept what your taught and not question to much , that understanding will come with time ? .

The disciplined structure , and as read on the KSL almost a submission before one can learn In traditional Japanese Koryu .

would this IMHO affect women more because of a less confrontational nature ? .

what say the women martial artists , would be interested in what type of enviroment is more conducive to there learning .

[Dana Sheets]

There is so much in the martial arts that each person must figure out how to do for themselves. As a teacher I'm usually able to get my point across - and yet I still give the same corrections to some students 18 ways to Sunday because they don't spend the time on their own to train. As a student I still struggle to understand what has been offered to me by different teachers and I still struggle to have the discipline to train something long enough to figure it out for myself.

Lead a horse to water and all that.

At a recent seminar Mr. McCarthy said that he requires he students to train each technique 1000 times. (He even gives them little books to track their training.) He said his teacher would say that to him whenever he went up to ask a question. Do it 1000 times. And he mean literally. Then Mr. McCarthy said, "You know what? after you do it 1000 times you work it out and the question isn't there any longer and you can do the skill and many variations."

So at a certain level I do think students need to have faith in the idea of just doing some basic patterns over and over again because that is what it takes for the human body to make a process automatic. And with automaticity can come an unbelieveable level of speed.

I also find many folks are looking for short-cuts. And that can be good. Sometimes you can find a short-cut as a better way to train something or a better way of teaching. However in some things (like iron body conditioning) there are no short cuts - only diligent work.

I guess the answer is, as always, it depends. Yes students should question the principles they are training and measure them against their experience. And sometimes you just need to put your brain aside for awhile and work the body.

I also believe there is more than one right way to teach depending on age, ability, interest, culture, goals, learning styles, and content. Sadly some teachers forget they are still students, and some teachers never bother to learn how to teach. Many teachers do their best to learn. And many students want to be spoon fed. They want the skills without the work. And martial arts is one of those disciplines where that's just not possible.

And yes - if women in general are less likely to disrupt a class and more likely to avoid confrontation then there is a good chance they will miss out on learning opportunities or not appropriately question what they are being taught. But you know lots of women like cardio kick-boxing classes and there aren't a whole lot of questions asked during one of those either. You get on the floor and do your best to keep up.

Tough question and I, for one, have no good or complete answer.

[gmattson]

I think you answered the question very well.

[Guest]

Dana wrote:

So at a certain level I do think students need to have faith in the idea of just doing some basic patterns over and over again because that is what it takes for the human body to make a process automatic. And with automaticity can come an unbelieveable level of speed.

Martin Sensei very rarely gives direct corrections to a student. He believes that there are natural effeciencies in the body that eventually take over and improve (not perfect) the practiced technique.

After an individual performance he may recommend to an individual and for the benefit of the class something like ... you need to work on your sanchin thrust. One night a few years ago he came right out and said ...

Jill, or Joe or Jane... How many years have you been in this class doing Sanchin with me every Wednesday? What do you think I do this for? You're supposed to watch. I've said from the beginning ...'Slide your striking arm along your ribcage." Three years and you've finally got it! Good!

[Kevin Mackie]

Reminds me, what's the difference between sales and marketing?

The marketing guy KNOWS he's lying.

For myself, I believe it's always best to avoid lying. I don't recall who said it, but it went like, "don't ever lie, that way, there's never any need to remember anything.

[Stryke]

thanks Dana , good thoughts .

there will always be aneed for repititon , but my minds still out on submission , If your not willing to do repitition I`d guess you should be moving on anyhow .