Will post more later, off to work..
Continuity of Attack
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JimHawkins
- Posts: 2101
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:21 am
- Location: NYC
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JimHawkins
- Posts: 2101
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:21 am
- Location: NYC
Wow I must have hit a nerve in that last post if you felt it appropriate to mock my dead teacher and link a photo back to my family's site.. Not something I take lightly..MikeK wrote: Nice pose. Is he training to get his arm busted?Right back atcha.
That pose is an extraction from the Luk Dim Boon Gwan form aka the Long Staff form..<Said to aid development of unarmed short power> The Gwan is over 8 feet long and quite heavy, thus the low stance and arm extension which obviously does not resemble standard WCK fighting.
Hell of a nice deep stance he had there though..
Shaolin
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit
Good, then you'll understand how your post could be insulting to some of us since you did the exact same thing. Care to carry on with your point about continuity and call a truce?Wow I must have hit a nerve in that last post if you felt it appropriate to mock my dead teacher and link a photo back to my family's site.. Not something I take lightly..
I was dreaming of the past...
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JimHawkins
- Posts: 2101
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:21 am
- Location: NYC
Mike
I had made a comment jesting on the "stiff" kumite pic, as per this topic, just one of a million examples on the web, as far as I know. I have no idea who those guys are; According to your post, they are your teachers Mike??
You on the other hand specifically went out of your way to target and attack my late teacher, <for a pole form pose> and there is no mistaking your intent there, it is clear, it is done, and I understand.
You on the other hand specifically went out of your way to target and attack my late teacher, <for a pole form pose> and there is no mistaking your intent there, it is clear, it is done, and I understand.
Shaolin
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit
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Rick Wilson
Hi Guys:
Yeah if you guys want to scrap on that issue the hideway is a good place and looks like there might be reasons to openly clear the air.
A couple of truths though: Never pick on a person's teacher and still pictures always tend to be stiff.
Mike: “I think is a myth and that's the Japanification of karate made it stiff.”
I agree and disagree with your points on this.
The traditional arts of Japanese combat had to flow and be continuous.
However, the Kata from sword technique training have become the “way.” If you watch certain Sword kata they are one move, strike, stop, step back all without follow up etc.
Now granted that if the strike landed it should be one strike one kill (hey it’s a sword) and they were intended to be like a "micro fight" taking one moment and one movement out of time but they have become the entire fight and they can be very stiff and not continuous and certainly no continuous flowing strikes.
When Karate was being introduced into Japan to be registered it had to undergo some changes:
4. Each style had to have a name.
5. The could no longer workout in just their undergarments so they converted the heavier judogi into the karategi.
6. They had to have some form of rank and certification so imposed the Kyu and Dan system of Judo (it was catching on everywhere.) Funakoshi was said to be greatly distressed that a person extremely junior to him was going to be deciding on his rank from the larger organization.
7. They had to have very set drills so they had kenjutsu people work with them to adapt the two person kata idea for their karate.
8. Oh yeah before they applied they changed the common Tode (karate – China Hand) to Karate (empty hand).
So I believe that perhaps all of the Japanese arts went through this “stiffening” as the preservationists came to be.
But I also agree that the instructors are to blame regardless.
“I dunno... you don't see any stop-bolck -wait-strike in Seisan kata and bunkai. “
In Seisan Kata there should not be but I have seen it. And in Bunkai, if you are talking about traditional Seisan Bunkai then I see it a lot and I do not see any flowing continuous follow ups.
If you mean simply bunkai for Seisan of your own or your schools then proper applications will have both. IMNSHO. (Not a knock on the traditional one just what I have seen and how it was designed.)
Yeah if you guys want to scrap on that issue the hideway is a good place and looks like there might be reasons to openly clear the air.
A couple of truths though: Never pick on a person's teacher and still pictures always tend to be stiff.
Mike: “I think is a myth and that's the Japanification of karate made it stiff.”
I agree and disagree with your points on this.
The traditional arts of Japanese combat had to flow and be continuous.
However, the Kata from sword technique training have become the “way.” If you watch certain Sword kata they are one move, strike, stop, step back all without follow up etc.
Now granted that if the strike landed it should be one strike one kill (hey it’s a sword) and they were intended to be like a "micro fight" taking one moment and one movement out of time but they have become the entire fight and they can be very stiff and not continuous and certainly no continuous flowing strikes.
When Karate was being introduced into Japan to be registered it had to undergo some changes:
4. Each style had to have a name.
5. The could no longer workout in just their undergarments so they converted the heavier judogi into the karategi.
6. They had to have some form of rank and certification so imposed the Kyu and Dan system of Judo (it was catching on everywhere.) Funakoshi was said to be greatly distressed that a person extremely junior to him was going to be deciding on his rank from the larger organization.
7. They had to have very set drills so they had kenjutsu people work with them to adapt the two person kata idea for their karate.
8. Oh yeah before they applied they changed the common Tode (karate – China Hand) to Karate (empty hand).
So I believe that perhaps all of the Japanese arts went through this “stiffening” as the preservationists came to be.
But I also agree that the instructors are to blame regardless.
“I dunno... you don't see any stop-bolck -wait-strike in Seisan kata and bunkai. “
In Seisan Kata there should not be but I have seen it. And in Bunkai, if you are talking about traditional Seisan Bunkai then I see it a lot and I do not see any flowing continuous follow ups.
If you mean simply bunkai for Seisan of your own or your schools then proper applications will have both. IMNSHO. (Not a knock on the traditional one just what I have seen and how it was designed.)
