That’s Not Uechi! Or is it?

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That’s Not Uechi! Or is it?

Postby Rick Wilson » Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:54 am

That’s Not Uechi! Or is it?

Such an interesting comment. :oops:

Such an arrogant comment. :oops:

Such an insecure comment. :oops:

While most will think this will be a commentary on the lack of acceptance of anything I do different or being black balled if you will for being a heretic, it is really something different. :wink:

These forums blow up every now and then it is usually because someone has commented negatively on either OUR Uechi or OUR person. 8O

And whether we are saying that is not Uechi or that is bad Uechi there really is not a lot of difference between the two. 8O

Since I am what some have termed a heretic it pisses me off when people claim I am not doing Uechi Ryu. :evil:

The arrogance of that statement is astounding and I truly believe some psychological treatment is required :lol: . (This would be a personal type comment but please read to the end before emailing George. :wink: )

Yeah I know I said that is not what this thread is about but give me a minute. :roll:

Bill proposed the more correct comment of “That’s not MY Uechi.”

Now to me that would be a valid comment. :D

Now, to the flip side, in the past I may have said one or two (okay maybe a few hundred :oops: ) things that bash the prearranged Kumites and also what some have coined “Robot Ryu.”

If I gave it enough thought and introspection and I was willing to admit to it, am I not, in essence, saying, “That’s not Uechi.” :oops:

ARRRGGGG. Not something I find very palatable. :oops:

If we think about it if they say I do not look like the Uechi they want to see then I am not doing Uechi. If I say they are not training Uechi the way I want Uechi trained then I am saying that is not Uechi. (May be I need counselling. :lol: )

What we really are saying is “that is not my Uechi." (Right Bill?)

And that I can live with.

In addition, I can disagree with YOUR Uechi and tell you why in hopes of a learning discussion, but just because you are not doing MY Uechi is really MY issue not yours.

So I may post why I disagree with YOUR Uechi and you can post why you disagree with MY Uechi but do not be so arrogant (humble remember) as to tell me I am not doing Uechi and I will endeavour to give you the same courtesy.

Anyway I have been trying to get back into the video clip game (I hope this weekend) so I have not been posting as much. Sorry about that. I have a few threads to post and some will be heavy subjects.
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Good points Rick. . .

Postby gmattson » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:26 am

Yes, it would be nice if people started to proclaim that what they see others do, that is different from what they do, as. . . "That is not MY Uechi!."

On the other hand, I believe it is arrogant to say "You are wrong because you are NOT doing MY Uechi!"
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Postby Guest » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:04 am

Actually... the real problem is Uechi.. and i've said this before, there just isn't enough ass-whoopin' goin' on...

:lol:
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Postby JimHawkins » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:10 am

So then what specifically defines Uechi, and what makes one a Uechi-ka?

What is the art of Uechi Ryu and what is not?

What is the purpose of Uechi Ryu training?

Does the simple proclamation, “I am a Uechi teacher” make it so?

Is there some minimum content requirement or training requirement such as inclusion of the big three kata?

If so then does any of this common content require any particular method of application or interpretation?

If not then what basis or validity is there in calling, what is essentially the limitless scope of any and all martial training Uechi Ryu?

And if some small slice of the training is validated by and required for qualification of the name Uech Ryu then it is because this is identifiable and verifiable.

So what justifies, validates, qualifies or identifies the remaining and possibly much larger “My Uechi” components?

Does the qualification in teaching the 10% requirement validate teaching this other 90%, the “whatever you want” content? And if so how?
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Postby Guest » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:20 am

Jim, generally, people who trained on Okinawa are the ones who think they know what Uechi Ryu is. Someone like me doesn't get any respect because I learned Uechi Ryu from a Shodan of GEM's on a concrete slab in his back yard. Doesn't matter what I say about this kata movement or this sparring technique, the dweebs that trained on Okinawa will trump you.
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Postby jorvik » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:53 am

But don't you ever get guys who have only trained in their own country who are so good that nobody can criticise their karate?.without making themselves look ridiculous :roll:
Years ago when I did Goju we had a guy at our club who had only trained on his own, but just doing kickboxing, he was tremendous and eventually became British full contact champion.when he joined our club he could already whup the blackbelts...........you couldn't say to him that his karate was cr*p because he would just ask to spar with you....and re-educate you in what karate was originally all about.i.e. fighting :wink:
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Postby JimHawkins » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:08 pm

But Jorvik,

THAT'S NOT MY, ER, UM, SOMEBODY'S, UECHI.......I MEAN GOJU!! :lol:
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Postby Guest » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:32 pm

Jorvik, yeah, the ThatsnotUechika's never bother people who have excelled in kumite.
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Always interested in hearing

Postby gmattson » Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:53 pm

what others have to offer in the way of training advice.

I've been "doing" MY Uechi, MY way, for many years. My Uechi of 1956 is not MY Uechi 2005. MY Uechi 2006 will not be the same Uechi as MY Uechi 2005.

So how can I (Or anyone) tell you how YOU are supposed to do YOUR Uechi?

I don't hear anyone on these forums trying to sell you fellows on THEIR Uechi, but man, do I hear a lot of selling about how wonderful YOUR Uechi is (even if it isn't Uechi) and how the rest of us must be . . . what???

In my estimation, having survived for 67 years is the best testimony I can give for MY Uechi.

Most of us Uechi die hards are very interested in YOUR Uechi (even if it isn't Uechi) since most of us are very open minded and don't believe OUR Uechi is a stone monument, but a dynamic and ever changing process that is very dependant on a healthy body and a sharp, ever thinking mind and an tiger-like "mindset".

Since no one read my last post, guess I'll have to make it my "tag" line:

Yes, it would be nice if people started to proclaim that what they see others do, that is different from what they do , as. . . "That is not MY Uechi!."

On the other hand, I believe it is arrogant to say " You are wrong because you are NOT doing MY Uechi !"
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:19 am

These days ive, started to see things not as right or wrong but as a different approach.

Boxers generate power differently from WKS. But are thier punches weak? Are they 'wrong'? No. Same goes for WKS, we hit hard.

So since there is no 'right'way to throw a punch, maybe there isnt a single right way for Uechi?
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Postby Guest » Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:14 am

When George speaks... people listen... :lol:

Hopefully he'll inspire some sticks in the mud to unroot themselves and encourage some growth in the style...
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Postby Rick Wilson » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:07 am

Hi George:

Exactly.

I posted the thread because I have in the past approached things in a “born again” manner (sorry if that phrase offended anyone, it just is the description I needed. 8O )

I think it is legitimate to have disagreements over the effectiveness of how we are training.

However, I think the way to address these is to put what you do out there for discussion and explain why you are approaching things the way you are.

People will either find what you have said interesting, even if only interesting enough to enter a discussion because they disagree with you.
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Postby Guest » Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:27 pm

Rick Wilson wrote:However, I think the way to address these is to put what you do out there for discussion and explain why you are approaching things the way you are.


Yeah, but then you hear things like "Well it's not Uechi because I trained on okinawa" or "I've got friends all over the world and none of them do it that way". So much for an intelligent discussion...
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Postby 2Green » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:38 pm

Just tuned into this thread...

Whatever Uechi is, it can be taught as sport, or as self defense and still be Uechi.

"To me" it means the teaching has several core components:
1: Sanchin as the main foundational, first-learned Kata.
2: The Kata path Sanchin - Seisan -- SanSeiRyu.
3: Techniques based upon application of Sanchin principles.
4: The Wa-uke.
5: Sanchin stance.

That's pretty well it.
The other intermediate Kata were introduced later, the various drills and kumites as well, and they flesh out most of the in-common training one MIGHT find if visiting another Dojo, but not necessarily.
Some teachers have other drills for training the techniques which are improvements on the original drills or emphasise a different application of them.
I don't think it's really any drills or exercise that define the style, I see it as the core components I listed above.
I'd be happy in any school that focused on that, and condsider it "Uechi."

As a matter of fact there's so much variation in form just in my town, from school to school, that the differences in training are obvious.

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Postby Rick Wilson » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:35 am

Tony: Yeah you will always run into those types but hey we keep talking and discussing on these forums and maybe it will catch on. :lol:

Neil: Good post.
:D
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