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Do you think kata had something to do with the fact that most of the peasants were illiterate?
Then again, i think its cool rick, how you come up with countless new techniques through the kata, which makes it far better then just reading in a book, since i could do the same one day.
But that said, do you think that the kata was made for being open to inerpretation and innovation or was originally made because no one could read?

I beleive it was a catalougue of techniques already learnt (applications and all)

maybe it was the easiest way becuase of literacy etc ....

I also think that at some point kata became more than the sum of it`s parts ...

however i dont think that the case nowadays

I like this thread, hi guys!
Kata when put on paper has little meaning to me, it`s like explaining the colour blue without having seen it. However, we can discuss where the colour blue would look good or what other colours go with it. Even better still shades of blue...soft and harsh
Kata IMO was meant to be eventually weaved into your person, much like different "styles" became the Uechi hybrid. Learning it by observation is only the first layer of the onion, the next layer is guidance from the instructor, the next layer discussion with your peers (much as we do in forums) and once we hopefully reach deeper layers the outside skin may often change appearance somewhat. Example of this is watch the same kata performed by two individuals that have gone deep into the onion such as Dave Mott and James Maloney (just two individuals of many)
You may imitate the exterior of thier "onion" but unless you have ventured in (often with tears ) the onion will lack flavour.
Rick, I fully agree that all we have is the kata and fortunately we have the guidance of others (including ourselves, lets not sell ourselves short) who know it is layered

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Léo

I'm no longer sure about kata being for the illiterate peasants. Karate was never for the masses so I can't see a secretive karate master coming up with a kata to help farmers become better fighters. Also Itosu, Arakaki, and Azato were all employed by the king, had language skills and they taught and created kata. I think what we're seeing with kata is only a part of the original teaching method.

I agree with Marcus that kata were used as notes on lessons learned and to physically reinforce those lessons. It just makes sense.

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I was dreaming of the past...

Uechi is the Kata and “what you do with them.”

In Chinese history the martial artists were the body guards and people of that like who were indeed often illiterate.

Funakoshi was chosen to represent Karate in Japan because he was a teacher and educated.

And I agree with Leo that you can write as much as you want but only the actual thing can hope to pass it on properly.

I have mentioned in other posts my ongoing interest and re-search into "mindset" also most of my posts were always about sanchin ,so thats were all my re-search started ,thats were the powerfull mindset is cultivated ,but at that point it is only one specifc area ,but it is the cornerstone .to carve that specific cornerstone the mind must be totally focussed ,and a mistake one could make is to entertain the idea that sanchin is carved in stone ,this is all a part of shu stage thinking .
Shu vision ,Ha vision ,Ri vision .
The cornerstone to the mindset is carved with shu vision ,but because the mindset is powerfull it can reach to Ha vision.

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max ainley

Kata for me is simply the way to remember the basic's through repetition. Mainly it's muscle memory though. Use it or lose it.. so therefore I practice my kata.

Yes it can also be a vehicle for discovery, but I have yet to learn anything from them just by doing them. It's only when I see another art does the kata reveal other applications than the ones I've been taught in class.

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Hydrogen Peroxide removes blood stains!

In WCK form work represents baseline "system grammer" perfection at <3> different levels of training, one for each form. Nothing more nothing less.

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Shaolin
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit

I am more along Max's line where I learn a great deal just from Kata.

Perhaps Kata is also a Rorschach figure, in which we see what our mind creates, and this leads us to a "new realization" which we then pass on as the "reality".

BTW, did you know there are only ten Rorschach blots, and you have never seen one? They are kept secret. The reproductions are fakes.



NM

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The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.

I agree Neil , but not passed on as the reality ...... just a reality ....

and while i beleive the moves were inspired by HAPV I think there also generic , and diverse ....



Me too Ben , i`d also add though a study of violence and human anatomy has inspired revelation in kata for me .

Try getting out of a certian prdicament and then look for similar moves in kata , youd be surprised how many apps you find .

Stryke:
I agree with that.
It's "THE" reality to the person passing it on, but "A" reality to the person receiving it.

NM

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The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.

Stryke:

A quick re-read...

Your comment about anatomy & "apps" (applications) is worth a very deep study.
I've found a few myself in Uechi, happy to share my meagre findings...

Applications of the human anatomy are at the heart of Karate or any Martial Arts in my opinion.
Strikes, locks, throws, traps, all capitalize on the fundamentals of human anatomy.
Therefore, any serious Martial Artist should be a student of anatomy as well.
We have available to us perhaps the most comprehensive library of the human anatomy of any generation. It behooves us to make use of it, simply because we CAN!

Ultimately, we fight motivated skeletons.
This is a serious study which I intend to delve into as part of my MA.

NM

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The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.

Cool Neil , how the body works and doesnt work to me , is the fundamental understanding that apps are built on .

How to impart force most effeciently (kata) , while targeting on these weaknesses and levers etc , opens up a whole world of exploration .

And Neil if you can share any ideas please do !!!



If your lucky they pass it on as A reality and not the reality ....

the fact is my applications like my kata are constantly evolving ....

I`d feel a jailor proclaiming any way , only ideas ...

Yeah, im surprised so many people still bash kata, despite this fact.