Abdominal Sheathing Drill
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Guest
we need a crazy filter...
This morning after reading your posts and looking back at mine, I realize I'm acting improperly. I'm a wacko who's overreacting. No offense to 2Green or anybody else. I'm just getting very tired of my current situation... Changing dojo's is stressfull. When I see comments that kind of support the environment I'm leaving, I snap on 'em. Sorry about that. We don't even know each other.
We all have to follow our own path and me bitching probably isn't productive. There's other ways to offer an opinion.
Of course there's times to wear and not wear equipment.
So what about this "Abdominal Sheathing"? Is it like a muscle? How does it work exactly?
We all have to follow our own path and me bitching probably isn't productive. There's other ways to offer an opinion.
Of course there's times to wear and not wear equipment.
So what about this "Abdominal Sheathing"? Is it like a muscle? How does it work exactly?
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Guest
Yeah Eric, I just started B.J.J. I lucked out when some guys who trained in Brazil (I think with gracies) decided to setup some classes out here. I just couldn't turn that stuff down man... Its hard work though... the calesthenics before the fun begins are really tough, but I need the work anyway. So yeah, right now i'm boxing twice a week, training at home twice a week, and doing BJJ on Saturdays. No Uechi Ryu though. The boxing is great man! I mean, the footwork, the power, techiques.. it will be great for your Uechi and there is no shortage of people to spar with... there is a pro in our club, forget his name, he's had like 8 fights with 3 knockouts... he's been helping me out on the bag and stuff... I think he wants me to get in the ring with him.. maybe I got something he likes (like some hard ass punches)... 
Theres a good chance i'll be doing some rounds with him really soon.. that'll be loads of fun!!!! Maybe i'll get some video!
Anyway, good for you man... take what Uechi you got and let it carry you through some new, fun stuff... Muay Thai is killer man.. I don't think you'd regret getting into that scene. Jake Steinmann has been doing it for several years and he loves it.
Tony
Theres a good chance i'll be doing some rounds with him really soon.. that'll be loads of fun!!!! Maybe i'll get some video!Anyway, good for you man... take what Uechi you got and let it carry you through some new, fun stuff... Muay Thai is killer man.. I don't think you'd regret getting into that scene. Jake Steinmann has been doing it for several years and he loves it.
Tony
Eric: What is the difference between a "fight" and a "competition"? Personally, I see them as two different animals. To me, one is a last resort, survival situation (your life is in jeopardy) and the other is a "serious fun", sport situation (your points are in jeopardy). Also, I'm curious to find out what Uechi techniques are so elegant that you think they don't work. These questions are not meant to be derogatory in any way. I'm just trying to see what other martial artists think about the system we've dedicated our lives to. Thanks and I hope you find the path you are searching for.
Yeah my mouth runs. I'll attempt to be normal. *I want to learn how to fight.*
"What is the difference between a "fight" and a "competition"?"
I don't know man. If I have to define let's say a fight is life and death. If you don't mind. We can change it if you like. And let's say competition is any type of competitive sport fighting. Real broad. Well I'm just trying to focus on one little sliver of the competition. Let's make the rules as close to fight as possible, but not so close we actually kill each other. But it must still be a possibility, just to keep us honest. I've heard some boxers talk about how they have to show up in shape, people have died in there. Okay, now is it reasonable to say that I as a student, who could be duped by some trickster mcdojo, needs a point of reference that can be trusted? And that is a competition rule set close to a real fight. Because I want to learn how to fight.
"I'm curious to find out what Uechi techniques are so elegant that you think they don't work" Yeah, I was just being pissy. But it's not completely untruthful. I've been trying to find video of a match were some of the more popular Uechi moves are allowed and successfully used. If I'm going to go with the first argument I must look for the proof. There's some bad asses in Uechi, in my dojo. That's clear. Take the palm heal control. The jerk at the end. Hips up and under. Taking it into a strike or arm bar or what ever you like, how often do you see such complex blocking utilized. That stuff is hard. You're mixing it up with somebody who's real fast, I don't know... Seems difficult. So I watch film and bug people who have more experience trying to figure out what's really effective. Not saying these positions don't occur, just rarely. Or so it currently seems.
"...about the system we've dedicated our lives to..." Yeah, I've got to remember that my poking around shouldn't be insulting. Just because I think something makes sense, who knows. There's plenty in life that's counterintuitive. Dedicating your life to something is serious business. You can take me trying to pull you into debate! Tell me where I'm wrong.
"What is the difference between a "fight" and a "competition"?"
I don't know man. If I have to define let's say a fight is life and death. If you don't mind. We can change it if you like. And let's say competition is any type of competitive sport fighting. Real broad. Well I'm just trying to focus on one little sliver of the competition. Let's make the rules as close to fight as possible, but not so close we actually kill each other. But it must still be a possibility, just to keep us honest. I've heard some boxers talk about how they have to show up in shape, people have died in there. Okay, now is it reasonable to say that I as a student, who could be duped by some trickster mcdojo, needs a point of reference that can be trusted? And that is a competition rule set close to a real fight. Because I want to learn how to fight.
"I'm curious to find out what Uechi techniques are so elegant that you think they don't work" Yeah, I was just being pissy. But it's not completely untruthful. I've been trying to find video of a match were some of the more popular Uechi moves are allowed and successfully used. If I'm going to go with the first argument I must look for the proof. There's some bad asses in Uechi, in my dojo. That's clear. Take the palm heal control. The jerk at the end. Hips up and under. Taking it into a strike or arm bar or what ever you like, how often do you see such complex blocking utilized. That stuff is hard. You're mixing it up with somebody who's real fast, I don't know... Seems difficult. So I watch film and bug people who have more experience trying to figure out what's really effective. Not saying these positions don't occur, just rarely. Or so it currently seems.
"...about the system we've dedicated our lives to..." Yeah, I've got to remember that my poking around shouldn't be insulting. Just because I think something makes sense, who knows. There's plenty in life that's counterintuitive. Dedicating your life to something is serious business. You can take me trying to pull you into debate! Tell me where I'm wrong.
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Guest
Stomach sheathing
It's impossible to say how long it takes to develop good, protective abdominal sheathing. What is the condition of the individual when he/she starts, how regularly does one practice and work on the drills? If this drill is combined with Sanchin testing on a twice-weekly basis, one should have a pretty taught and hard muscular shield in a year.
What is this all about anyway? It's at the heart of the controversy about backing up. If you are able to take a body shot you don't have to back up. You are in range to retaliate and counter. You have a high degree of self-confidence and gain a psychological edge on the opponent because he hits you and doesn't hurt you.
The generality of the population can't hit hard or effectively in the first place and secondly the ones who can are confused when you take their best shot without folding. And you of course can bend them like a bow with three or four rapid shots.
Sensei Martin used to take us out on demonstrations and challenge persons in the audience to move him out of his Sanchin stance with a body shot. In fact, and this is true, one of us would hold 10 Benjamins, if someone could move him with a punch we'd turn over the bucks. He never lost.
His only criteria was that professinal athletes and those who weighed over 280 had to hit first. The point for the audience being that Uechi made you tough in a very practical way - you could take a punch from a big guy and this was perceived as a very practical self-defense attribute. Not only could you take a punch, you could take a punch from a sequence of punchers and not be moved back. Lots of people just wanted to see what it felt like to sock somebody else without hurting the target person.
Why do you condition the abdominal wall ... to be able to get in close and utilize Uechi techniques ... to develop self-confidence ... to learn to evaluate the punching powerl of somebody who's about to hit you ... to develop a high level rooted stance with core body strength.
What is this all about anyway? It's at the heart of the controversy about backing up. If you are able to take a body shot you don't have to back up. You are in range to retaliate and counter. You have a high degree of self-confidence and gain a psychological edge on the opponent because he hits you and doesn't hurt you.
The generality of the population can't hit hard or effectively in the first place and secondly the ones who can are confused when you take their best shot without folding. And you of course can bend them like a bow with three or four rapid shots.
Sensei Martin used to take us out on demonstrations and challenge persons in the audience to move him out of his Sanchin stance with a body shot. In fact, and this is true, one of us would hold 10 Benjamins, if someone could move him with a punch we'd turn over the bucks. He never lost.
His only criteria was that professinal athletes and those who weighed over 280 had to hit first. The point for the audience being that Uechi made you tough in a very practical way - you could take a punch from a big guy and this was perceived as a very practical self-defense attribute. Not only could you take a punch, you could take a punch from a sequence of punchers and not be moved back. Lots of people just wanted to see what it felt like to sock somebody else without hurting the target person.
Why do you condition the abdominal wall ... to be able to get in close and utilize Uechi techniques ... to develop self-confidence ... to learn to evaluate the punching powerl of somebody who's about to hit you ... to develop a high level rooted stance with core body strength.
BTW, Eric: no offense taken my friend. I've vented my frustrations many times here and we all do.
We're not sniping at each other, mostly we're pointing out what see as deficiencies in our training.
Exploration/discussion is a wonderful thing and we all get to (as Bill Glasheen says:) "Rant=on" when required!
NM
We're not sniping at each other, mostly we're pointing out what see as deficiencies in our training.
Exploration/discussion is a wonderful thing and we all get to (as Bill Glasheen says:) "Rant=on" when required!
NM
The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.
John said:
"Why do you condition the abdominal wall ... to be able to get in close and utilize Uechi techniques ... to develop self-confidence ..."
I think the key phrase here is "GET IN CLOSE", because the longest distance any techniques might work could be a jumping or running/leaping kick where you start clearly outside limb-distance.
Uechi doesn't teach many of those, although yes a few.
Next range is side thrust-kick where you roll the hip over and extend the leg.
Yes, we have those too. Powerful weapon if you have the time and space.
Next range is arm's length. Here you are at the receiving end of an extended-arm shot.
It is this range where I believe Uechi teaches "get inside, quick!" Don't stand at the business end of a shotgun barrel, get in by the trigger where it's much safer.
The range I train Uechi is where my elbows are guarding my ribs and my forearms are 45 degrees up and out.
That's close.
That's like, two feet from your opponent, or less. That's my range of application.
Stand in Sanchin or Kanshiwa guard stance and get up to a wall. You'll see that your front foot is inches from the wall and your hands are touching it.
That's my contact distance.
Now, from THIS distance, think about my head, my groin, my ribs, my belly, my solar plexus.
My training mindset is all about going in, and I'm aware of the "backing up" threads.
You can't train your hand to press harder on a red-hot stove element that you accidentally touch. It would be unwiring Nature's protection to do so.
******Now, about "Habits of Going In"...**********
I'm wary of claims that you can "train" to go forward under a TRUE (definition:"complete surprise") attack.
Totally unprepared.
Totally surprised.
Attacked in your sleep as it were.
Unfortunately most threads which discuss this issue turn into "preparation/awareness" threads, which really sidesteps the uncomfortable issue of whether or not this can be acomplished in a non-military day-to-day functioning individual.I expect this post will also go that way.
It's all about the NEXT thing you do, not the FIRST thing you do.
.Even Mr. Blauer talks about "training OFF the flinch", not "training the flinch".
Flinches are hardwired reponses that bypass the analytical mind...for a good reason -- survival!
There might be a trained-down-to microsecond delay between "flinch" and "respond", but "respond" after the fact is all we can train for.
If you don't know me from Jack and we're converging on a sidewalk, and suddenly I throw my steaming-hot Starbucks in your face, I KNOW what you're going to do. There's no "thought" going on in you. I hold the advantage, if only for a second until you become the Terminator, and THEN my ass is grass.
See? Flinch first (protection) THEN respond (trained response).
There might be a slight or even a long delay, but no one is fast enough to stop the hand that flings the coffee when they are TRULY unprepared.
John G:
I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but the concepts of in-close techniques and reactive motion are closely related as I'm sure you understand.
NM
"Why do you condition the abdominal wall ... to be able to get in close and utilize Uechi techniques ... to develop self-confidence ..."
I think the key phrase here is "GET IN CLOSE", because the longest distance any techniques might work could be a jumping or running/leaping kick where you start clearly outside limb-distance.
Uechi doesn't teach many of those, although yes a few.
Next range is side thrust-kick where you roll the hip over and extend the leg.
Yes, we have those too. Powerful weapon if you have the time and space.
Next range is arm's length. Here you are at the receiving end of an extended-arm shot.
It is this range where I believe Uechi teaches "get inside, quick!" Don't stand at the business end of a shotgun barrel, get in by the trigger where it's much safer.
The range I train Uechi is where my elbows are guarding my ribs and my forearms are 45 degrees up and out.
That's close.
That's like, two feet from your opponent, or less. That's my range of application.
Stand in Sanchin or Kanshiwa guard stance and get up to a wall. You'll see that your front foot is inches from the wall and your hands are touching it.
That's my contact distance.
Now, from THIS distance, think about my head, my groin, my ribs, my belly, my solar plexus.
My training mindset is all about going in, and I'm aware of the "backing up" threads.
You can't train your hand to press harder on a red-hot stove element that you accidentally touch. It would be unwiring Nature's protection to do so.
******Now, about "Habits of Going In"...**********
I'm wary of claims that you can "train" to go forward under a TRUE (definition:"complete surprise") attack.
Totally unprepared.
Totally surprised.
Attacked in your sleep as it were.
Unfortunately most threads which discuss this issue turn into "preparation/awareness" threads, which really sidesteps the uncomfortable issue of whether or not this can be acomplished in a non-military day-to-day functioning individual.I expect this post will also go that way.
It's all about the NEXT thing you do, not the FIRST thing you do.
.Even Mr. Blauer talks about "training OFF the flinch", not "training the flinch".
Flinches are hardwired reponses that bypass the analytical mind...for a good reason -- survival!
There might be a trained-down-to microsecond delay between "flinch" and "respond", but "respond" after the fact is all we can train for.
If you don't know me from Jack and we're converging on a sidewalk, and suddenly I throw my steaming-hot Starbucks in your face, I KNOW what you're going to do. There's no "thought" going on in you. I hold the advantage, if only for a second until you become the Terminator, and THEN my ass is grass.
See? Flinch first (protection) THEN respond (trained response).
There might be a slight or even a long delay, but no one is fast enough to stop the hand that flings the coffee when they are TRULY unprepared.
John G:
I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but the concepts of in-close techniques and reactive motion are closely related as I'm sure you understand.
NM
The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.
