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 Post subject: Attack Mentality
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:06 am 
Attack Mentality

In situations where we know the $hit is going to hit the rotating turbines we have a choice (depending on our skill level) as to whether we respond at the end of a strike or at the beginning of a strike.

Example:

You are standing with the aggressor right in front of you.

They throw that looping sucker punch barroom brawl type of thing, which is very realistic in many cases.

You can choose block the strike and this may even involve some form of distancing back out of the arcing line of attack and then strike the aggressor.

However, if we are aware of the situation and prepared for an attack to come the distance to reach your arm out and block the strike is equal to or longer than the distance to reach out and strike the aggressor.

Try a drill.

Version One:

1. “A” stands facing “B”. Both have their hands down at their sides.

2. B should be close enough to A that with a little movement forward he can swing his arm up in a loop and strike A on the shoulder with an open palm. (We use an open palm to the shoulder so that the drill can speed up to reality speed without B having to worrying about injuring A.

3. Pick the right or left arm for B to strike A.

4. When B tries to strike A’s shoulder A blocks the strike. Start slow and then speed up to reality speed in the end.

Version Two:

Version Two is virtually the same EXCEPT this time B can use either arm.

Try both versions and see how you do.

Version Three:

1.“A” stands facing “B”. Both have their hands down at their sides.

1. B should be close enough to A that with a little movement forward he can swing his arm up in a loop and strike A on the shoulder with an open palm. (We use an open palm to the shoulder so that the drill can speed up to reality speed without B having to worrying about injuring A.

2. Pick the right or left arm for B to strike A.

3. This time when B tries to strike A’s shoulder A responds with an open palm straight arm strike to B’s upper chest. A can use either hand. Start slow and then speed up to reality speed in the end.

Version Four:

Version Two is virtually the same EXCEPT this time B can use either arm.

Try versions three and four and see how you do.

Often Version One is not so bad. Version Two gets you hit a few times because you miss which arm they are going to use.

Version Three works well and should seem a little faster that Two or Three.

Version Four is identical to Three because the strike stops the attack regardless of which side B strikes with. A should not care.

Version Five:

A returns to blocking the strike but wants to follow the block with a counter.

B does not stop at one strike but tries to get about four or six strikes to alternating shoulders.

Version Six:

A returns to striking when B tries to hit them and A tries to land four to six alternating strikes.

B does not stop at one strike but tries to get about four or six strikes to alternating shoulders.

Try it and see how you do.

By now the fact that IF you have time to raise your arm and “block” that incoming strike, you therefore have time to raise and strike the aggressor.

If you are blocking a strike, you are responding usually at the “end” of the strike. This also means that if you are facing a talented foe that they are already launching the second attack.

Striking in response requires you to respond in the beginnings of an attack. If you do that then you open with a strike to the aggressor that “may” give you the time to get to strike two.

In addition once B can use either hand to “block” the strike you usually respond with the hand on the corresponding side. When you strike it does not matter which hand you use to the “decision” factor is taken out of the response time.

And if you add in the potential for a fake before B strikes you often find that A will stall when blocking but continues to hit when striking.

When the response time needs to be short it is often better to strike and engage immediately if you are aware the attack is pending.

If you can move your arm to block you can move it to strike.


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 Post subject: Attack mentality
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:30 am 
And contrary to what some may think

Attack mentality has little to do with attacking mentally :silly: :twisted: :oops: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

well unless you train with kiwis that is 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Attack Mentality
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:00 pm 
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Rick Wilson wrote:
If you are blocking a strike, you are responding usually at the “end” of the strike.


Just wondering.. Why is this so?

While in WCK we don't want to 'chase hands' we do like to "block" which could be a "Fill" or "Press" or "Slice" as soon as possible in order to cut off the attack and take balance before the attack gains max speed and power which is what will be present near the end of the strike. This is one reason we use forward energy, which can also take the form of a strike which can take a path just inside the opponent's strike displacing his attack while yours is fired. I have seen Jimmy Maloney doing similar things..

For the above drill I would do the palm <to chest> slightly off center on the side being attacked if they're going to the shoulde. If possible with a step angle in on that side. Why not do it chest to chest?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:54 pm 
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Quote:
If you are blocking a strike, you are responding usually at the “end” of the strike.
Rick, Jim, I've noticed this in many demonstrations and training. I've also noticed for many techniques in karate they have to be applied before the strike is locked out. The demonstration has become the technique. Too much punching air.

Quote:
If you can move your arm to block you can move it to strike.
Why not do both at the same time? :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:46 pm 
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MikeK wrote:
Why not do both at the same time?


What a concept.. :lol: Next I'll expect to hear "Try it forward.." :lol:

Of course there are different kinds of attacks and some lend themselves to a simple stop hit(s), others may ask for a fill/jam/clear with a hit <managing the clash>. Personally, with some exceptions and depending on the moment I prefer to work from a point of attack because I simply do not trust blocks..even cool balance stealing ones. Maybe one day I will but right now I prefer attacking or clashing from the outside and then working off their resistance through feel. In WCK the cool guys will just let the opponent fire off whatever they want and use each move against them.. They will jam the first one with hand/arm 1, then in the second move they will parry the second shot with arm/hand 2 while at the same time hand 1 hits and then tie them in knots and follow-up.. I am not comfortable read advanced enough yet to trust this fancy crap, so I prefer to go for the inside line stop hit or outside line attack clash and if they get in the way so much the better.

Sometimes I work the pure hit and clear together especially for a jab, funny enough this comes from pak da but it is almost exactly the same move I see *some* advanced boxers do where they start moving the the rear hand parry closer to the opponent and parry/clear AS they counter jab back, which sets up the rear follow-up. This has a few different variations but it's funny how close it is to what I would call ‘advanced’ economical and intercepting Western Boxing, at least the outside entry part.

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"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:04 pm 
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Quote:
I am not comfortable read advanced enough yet to trust this fancy crap, so I prefer to go for the inside line stop hit or outside line attack clash and if they get in the way so much the better.
Heck Jim, I see that as the best way to get the job done. Everything else is just playing around.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:35 pm 
Good stuff , I`m very much in favour of a cover and explode methodology , and it`s probably shotokan influenced so rain down the proverbial ....

It definitely rely ons stop hits and attacking the attack , If I have to fight I attack , My attack will cover one side and the guard the other , compound this and you get clashes or clean hits .

clashes work to jamming and trapping and those blocks with forward pressure ( cool eh Jim :wink: ) , and if that doesnt work it`ll lead to clinching , maybe throwing , and maybe well both fall over and ground comes into play .......

All the time I`m still attacking , meaning any respite by my opponent is an opening and he plays cacth up .

that and seizing anatomical vulnerable areas , gouging etc , means I can often get a predetermined response , and then take control of the ooda loop .

Even my ground game is aggressive , Despite the thoughts on pinning and positional strategy my objective is to cause the opponent to react , either enabling me to get to my feet or create an opening and forcing a submission .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:00 am 
“While in WCK we don't want to 'chase hands' we do like to "block" which could be a "Fill" or "Press" or "Slice" as soon as possible in order to cut off the attack and take balance before the attack gains max speed and power which is what will be present near the end of the strike.”

I don’t think of this as blocking but closing and jamming so maybe it is just a terminology thing.

Strike while avoiding is one of the main principles in our school.

“Why not do both at the same time?”

Totally agree. That’s why we have two hands. :lol:

I use intercepts all the time; however, my focus is always first on the strike where ever possible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:19 am 
Quote:
I don’t think of this as blocking but closing and jamming so maybe it is just a terminology thing.


Same here Rick , I just use others terminology so perhaps they can see other options with there blocks/intercepts/attacks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:21 am 
The attack mentality is a specific focus on striking.

Whether you are intercepting or blocking at the same time is up to you.

What the attack mentality does not do is block then strike whenever possible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:53 pm 
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Excellent, guys.

The right mentality is 'he moves_ you move' and get there first in compound fashion.

Strike 'bone' as he strikes skin, at worst. Achieve a 'stun' or 'stop' then disengage and disappear if safe to do so.

Hit in 'threes' and try to cut the inside of one of his shins with the 'blade of your shin' _ then as he recoils from the shin shot, giving you access to the other leg_ cut into its shin with your shin blade for a hit/take down.

Be sure to condition your shins properly, before even thinking of this _

That is if you cannot defuse and evade, your first choice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:18 pm 
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Then we have the 'flinch' situation, as per Gem's_ a very important consideration.

Say you are sitting at the bar talking to a guy_ he decides he doesn't like you, because you remind him of his uncle who molested him at a young age.

He picks up his beer bottle as to pour in his glass, then slams it upside your noggin_ while 'talking' to you.

Now what :wink:

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 Post subject: Ok
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:26 pm 
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What to do against the very 'popular' two-handed shove that comes before a waist tackle?

How to read it and shut it down?

How about a left handed lapel grab?

Two hands lapel or head grab?

Head butt?

Side head lock?

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 Post subject: Not to worry
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:35 pm 
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There is more.

Look forward to the 'finish' _ head smash [yours] to curb_ railing_ bumper_ bar top_ wall/doorway.

In a real fight we face bad intent motivated by fear, envy, and frustration. This finds expression in the need to injure,maim, or kill.

Imagine some punk in a rusted pick up truck with loud pipes, tailgating and bumping into the rear of your new $60K BMW out of envy.

Really, what do you think would happen? :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:06 am 
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Location: on the path.
Mr. Wilson said:
"However, if we are aware of the situation and prepared for an attack to come the distance to reach your arm out and block the strike is equal to or longer than the distance to reach out and strike the aggressor."

...The way we train, there is no distinction between "blocking the strike" and "striking the aggressor".
ALL BLOCKS strike the aggressor in a manner intended to hurt, damage, dissuade and render the aggressor vulnerable.

We don't train to stand there and swat incoming limbs, we use
the opportunity to punish the aggressor with a counterattack that locks-out his intended attack while delivering our own.
That, to me, is what a "block" really is. A counterattack that locks out the aggressor's attack while delivering our own.

Every "block" (hate that word) that we train is a counter, not a defense.
The "block" IS the counterattack.

"Blocks" in the classical defensive sense, only work once, in a surprise situation, hypothetically, maybe.
But Mr. Wilson's scenario has us "prepared".

This gives us the luxury of time...to move IN...


NM

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