Attack Mentality

A place where this subject can be evaluated and discussed. No "bashing" allowed. "Tell us what YOU do"

Postby MikeK » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:07 am

Right Tony and that's why I said "If he comes up the center take his side or get behind him. A little tai sabki and a little receiving can help gain advantage". What is tai sabaki and receiving in boxing lingo? :wink:

Tony, you bring up another good point and that's...
By slipping, your not nessecarly trying to get them to miss you, but the goal is more to convert what would be a perdincicular strike, to a glancing blow.

Sometimes we try too hard for an optimal solution trying not to get hit.

Jim, what's your rule on reading the jab?
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Postby Guest » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:30 am

Mike, that would be "slipping". Tai Sabaki would not be allowed as your only allowed to lay into the northern hemisphere of the body... my buddy Frank, an Enshin Sandan is an expert at Sabaki moves... Joko Ninomiya teaches his students to be light on their feet light a boxer and "tenshin" around the center while executing barages of powerful kicks and punches. Watching Frank work the heavy bag is amazing.. He and a friend of his came to winterfest some time ago and demonstrated Tai Sabaki for everyone.
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Postby JimHawkins » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:02 am

MikeK wrote:Jim, what's your rule on reading the jab?


Rule on reading?

Not sure what you mean exactly.. The term "rule" was referenced earlier wrt how I pick and choose tools and their refinement.

In WCK all attacks are referenced by where they start and travel with respect to the centerline and the 6 gates.
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Postby MikeK » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:12 am

I've been taught that tai sabaki is moving your body out of the way of an attack while at the same time placing yourself in a advantagous position to counter-attack. So slipping and blading and tenshin are all types of tai sabaki to me. Technically all karate has tai sabaki, or should. Boxing also has tai sabaki but it's just not called that. Seems that the Aiki guys put it best. Tai Sabaki

Tony, I've never trained with the Enshin crowd but from the videos and Ninomiya's book it's a great, well thought out method. BTW If anybody is looking for a very well done karate book check out Sabaki Method. I've yet to see a better one.

Jim, Van had posted this...
And I saw that 'rule' in action when you taught me how to read and handle a jab/jabs.

I'm wondering what technique you use for reading the jab. Is it like"closest weapon to closest target"?
Last edited by MikeK on Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stryke » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:16 am

Hey Mike if you get a chance look at his tapes

I hold that as the pinnacle of karate sports fighting
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Postby Stryke » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:21 am

for what its worth ...

I think Ashi sabaki is body movement

and Tai sabaki is footwork

but I hate using Japanese thanks to Laird ;) , english is much clearer .
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Postby Van Canna » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:33 am

My ex-boxer student had a very scary and mean jab. When he does it with full power it is a lightning fast snap, he has a nice long reach and you can see the power; I fully expect he could KO someone with it.


I have had boxers in my dojo, and have fought many sparring [karate] matches against two particular ex boxers_ Nev Kimbrell and Joe Sherrin of the old Mattson academy.

Very fast jabs, especially when you are set up for them. But that falls into the realm of mutual combat in the ring and not self-defense. Yet you can be set up for a power jab during an ‘interview’ without even realizing it.

We have a friend [Jay’s friend] Chris_ [Fedele met him at a Foxhole party] _ heavy tattoos_ six-foot five_ ex boxer_ arms almost twice the length of mine.

Jab like lightning.

Tony
it's a game of probabilities if you don't have the ability to "read" yet, but it's better then walking right into a jab that can knock you down.

Oh, and a jab in the chest can hurt too!



In the street you read ‘intent’ and you shut it down before you are set up for the jab or other attack.

Hesitating or giving your assailant the ‘first shot’ is where you die. One split second late, one mistake in interception or sidestepping, you will be hit and stunned_ and then you will find holding your eyeballs in your hands. As Tony explained once.

There is an article in the Globe today about a man punched, falling, fracturing his skull and dying. You give him the first shot and you may well end up in the same pine box.

Let’s keep in mind self defense vs. fighting/dueling/mutual combat etc._

Practice ‘legal defense’ as well_ very difficult to bring it all together under the adrenaline chaos.
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Here is the real reality of the street

Postby Van Canna » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:43 am

Police say punch led to death.
O'Connell's dreams came to an end early Friday morning with a single blow to his head outside a popular Westfield bar.

O'Connell hit the ground so hard it fractured his skull, said family members. Unconscious, he was rushed to Bay State Hospital and then to Springfield Hospital.

O'Connell died hours later.
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Postby JimHawkins » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:58 am

MikeK wrote:Jim, Van had posted this...
And I saw that 'rule' in action when you taught me how to read and handle a jab/jabs.

I'm wondering what technique you use for reading the jab. Is it like"closest weapon to closest target"?


Well the "rule" Van referred to was conservation... But the “concept” in play was filling the line with attack and removing obstructions as they occur.

The move involved attacking the line with a vertical punch elbow down with a tiny angle off and step in.. This can be done before during or after the "jab" is fired and because it stays on the line the timing problem is minimized meaning it's hard to be early or late with it. Upon contact <FEEL= ON> the opposite hand jams the opponent's lead arm into him pressing him, while the first hand hits.. Total time about 0.2 seconds. That is the basic entry, though there are variations and compound options.
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Postby MikeK » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:38 am

Stryke wrote:for what its worth ...

I think Ashi sabaki is body movement

and Tai sabaki is footwork

but I hate using Japanese thanks to Laird ;) , english is much clearer .

Close Marcus, but you have it backwards. Ashi is footwork, tai is body movement.

Thanks Jim.
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Postby Stryke » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:39 am

Thanks Mike , now you know why I hate Japanese :roll:

It`s all greek to me :lol:
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Postby MikeK » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:44 am

Join the club Marcus. I barely get by with English. :lol:
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Postby Rick Wilson » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:49 am

Excellent discussion.
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Postby Guest » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:34 am

MikeK wrote:Tony, I've never trained with the Enshin crowd but from the videos and Ninomiya's book it's a great, well thought out method. BTW If anybody is looking for a very well done karate book check out Sabaki Method. I've yet to see a better one.


It's a great book! Mine is even signed by Ninomiya!!! :D

My buddy Frank appears in the 97 or 98 Sabaki Challenge video btw.
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Postby Guest » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:37 am

Van Canna wrote:In the street you read ‘intent’ and you shut it down before you are set up for the jab or other attack.


I totally agree with that Van... it's best of you make the first move. I thought you where asking me what i've been learning about the Jab as far as my training goes.
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