Sniping

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Dana Sheets
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Sniping

Post by Dana Sheets »

snipe n.

1. pl. snipe or snipes
1. Any of various long-billed shore birds of the genus Gallinago or Capella, related to the woodcocks and sandpipers, especially the common, widely distributed species G. gallinago or C. gallinago.
2. Any of various similar or related birds.
2. A shot, especially a gunshot, from a concealed place.

intr.v. sniped, snip·ing, snipes

1. To shoot at individuals from a concealed place.
2. To shoot snipe.
3. To make malicious, underhand remarks or attacks.

[Middle English, probably from Old Norse -snpa(as in mrisnpa, marsh snipe).]
I've wondered of late if we tend to be more sensitive to direct insults or to sniping.

The difference is that with an open insult I want you to know that I'm coming for you. With sniping I'm kind of like a a little fish pulling at a carcass in the water. I zoom in, make a thinly veiled remark, tug off a little flesh, and zoom back out.

Insult: You are one mean bastard.
Sniping: Are you trying to be a mean bastard?

The first is direct, open, and clear. The second gives me the option of passing it off and being able to make caveats by saying "Oh, I was only just asking" or "Hey, I was just trying to get your goat." Very subtle difference - but definitely there.

Here's the fun part on the internet - without body language, intonation, context, rapport, and simple eye contact it is difficult to tell if someone is sniping, asking a real question, or making a joke.

This also has to do with baggage we bring to each and every conversation we have whether online or offline.

For example, I'm short. And most of the time I'm pretty good humored about it. But every once and awhile someone I do not know well will make some crack about my being "vertically challenged" in some manner. And because I don't know the person well I don't know if they're just poking fun at me or if they're actually insulting me but trying to hide behind the ruse of humor.

So what do I do? Do I always call out each and every perceived insult or any comment that can be remotely construed as sniping? Obviously not. I've somehow over the years come up with my own set of rules about what I'm going to question so that I know the person's intent and what comments or which kind of people I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and let it roll off my back.

So a simplied version of my rules kinda looks like this:
1. If you're a close friend then you'll get cut lots of slack.
2. If you're someone I've known for a long time or know through someone else you'll get cut some slack, but less
3. If you're someone I've just met you'll get little slack
4. If you're someone I don't know at all you get no slack (unless there are outside influences like business meetings, holiday/family events, times and places where - for whatever reason - I chose to bite my tongue to keep everything peachy.)

This is another place where ego has a big role to play. If I have lots of baggae and low self-esteem IMO I would be more likely to think of things said to me or written to me on the internet as sniping. If I have an appropriate amount of ego I'm going to be less likely to be concerned with sniping remarks. And, again IMO, if I have too much ego I am again going to be more likely to perceive sniping where there is none.

The internet is an even more special case because it is like a big partyline phone with everyone talking at once. So there's no way to be sure who is speaking directly to whom. There is no way to know which people have close relationships and which don't when you first arrive on a forum and it is going to take time for folks to get their footing to figure out how to talk in this new medium.

I think, oddly enough, I'm more likely to get all riled up over comments and remarks that happen in my acutal life than comments I read on the internet. I'm not sure why. I have visited and read forums where the opposite is true. Those places are ones where almost every thead ends up with someone challenging someone else to drop by for a fight or simply writing endless screaming posts touting their own superiority.

This forum is, thankfully, not that kind of place 95% of the time.

So I'm curious if folks are aware of any difference between their offline sensitivities to sniping and their online sensitivities? Are we the same people in both worlds? Should we be? Or does the medium decide the appropriate level of sensitivity?
Did you show compassion today?
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Bill Glasheen
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

Post by Bill Glasheen »

I think there are several things going on here.

First, we only get one line of communication. We don't see the body language. We don't see the face. We don't see the dress. We can't hear the voice intonation. We can't smell them. All we get is the text, and we don't have any Pulitzer Prize winners online.

Maybe one day... :wink:

Another thing is the audience. This most definitely is not an intimate conversation. So consciously, unconsciously, or inadvertently, we are giving our comments a broad audience. Because of the audience, it sometimes demands a response from the individual that you wouldn't otherwise get. It's like the difference in behavior in Congress when the TV cameras are on vs. when they are off. When the camera rolls, you get posturing and posing. You get insults where they otherwise wouldn't be, and statements about honor and character. And it can get a bit much...

Good thing we're all level-headed, mature, well-adjusted people on these forums... :roll: :lol:

- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jorvik

Post by jorvik »

The internet is a very strange place, and really you only get to know people by what they say. I have never met anybody from these forums and I really don't know anything about them, and the same goes of course for me. I've said before that we really don't know who the fighters are and who the couch potatoes are.we are granted a certain amount of anonimity and that's a good thing. I always talk with folks as though they can "walk their talk" and I pretty much expect the same from them.
The great problem we have is assumption. We assume things about other people. I am English, so many of the assumptions Americans make about me are based on stereo types, I don't look like or talk like Hugh Grant :D
and there are cultural assumptions. An English conservative is not like an American one.the newspapers are different, so is the TV. There are other posters from Canada and New Zealand so they to will have different cultures.................in the post about "Cups" virtually no one wears one in my country, except if they do full contact. Now folks might have thought I was being argumentative or putting protective equipment down, I wasn't .
So when I spaek with folks I try not to get over emotional...and it can be kinda funny because a lot of the time folks will think that you are really upset about something and your not, or angry and your not...........or you might think a point that you have made is extremely interesting and it gets overlooked :roll:
but we are all governed by the same rules :lol:
One thing that I have thought is it would be really odd to meet somebody from the forums in person, face to face......I would think it very strange indeed. The internet is nicely compartmentalised :wink:
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

It`s a funny buisness , personally I dont think i say anything on the forums I wouldnt to someone directly .

I personally find when someone i respect goes out of there way to be disparaging I find it more insulting , and am more prone to react .

Similarly I have a protective nature and will be highjacked when somone disparages my freinds (this is a positive attribute in R/L but not on the forums )

the real problem is it all adds up , some of us put too much time in ;) , and the snipes mount up , and while there often settled with openess and good natured discourse sometimes they arent .

Bill wont mind i`m sure using him as an example , theres been a few run ins .... and i`m sure there wll be more , but all involved have learnt to give a little wriggle room , and lately it seems we can get past the points of view and often come to some very similar principles and concepts .

And of course agreeing to disagree :)

I think it`s when folks tend to have no leeway and promote there thoughts as correct and absolute and infallible , well people cant tolerate that .

and often both sides see it the same way .

when folks opinions are not only wrong but labelled as distuctuve and harmfull to the art or style this is even a bigger insult , for it`s no longer even about ones opinion , it`s now crossing into personal attack , character , intentions etc

so a little sniping can be accumulatively a very destructive thing , especially when you dont have the face to face resources to sort it out .

so the lack of humanity of the tool , leaves it very open to insult , but very closed to the human elemnet that is essential in mending bridges .

that of course and the stuff that goes behind the scenes unknown to the majority of posters .

All in all it`s amazing theres not more flair ups than there are .

I dont have any answers just observations .
jorvik

Post by jorvik »

Well I must say that there are some folks that I wouldn't mind having a beer with....or several :lol:
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

Maybe some real ale ;)

just none of that watery American stuff ...... :lol:
jorvik

Post by jorvik »

Yeah..low alcohol :oops: :oops: ..........Yuk :x
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Bill Glasheen
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

Post by Bill Glasheen »

If all you care about is high alcohol, we've got you covered, mate!

Image

- Bill
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

Nah i`m pretty sure it`s the taste too ...

but why you guys drink kinder Beer is beyond me
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Dana Sheets
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am

Post by Dana Sheets »

Me too.

When I got back from my year in Europe my brother handed me a Miller Light in a can. I popped it open, took a sip, and handed it back to him. And I said "You'd better check that can - there's no beer in it, only water."

And you know what, I wasn't trying to be cheeky or anything. I really did think that can was full of water. Turns out it was full of light beer. Yuck.

Personally I'll take a Leffe or Hoegaarden any day of the week.
Image
Image

But we digress...
Did you show compassion today?
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

Ahh Hoegaarden , man at least someone remembers to spell it properly :)

nothing wrong with a digression if it`s that much fun Dana !!

It also doesnt affect the head as much the next day ... though why i`d know that is beyond me ...
2Green
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Joined: Thu Sep 23, 1999 6:01 am
Location: on the path.

Post by 2Green »

Even more malicious than sniping is "character assassination" which is a lethally refined version of "talking behind someone's back".
It is the deliberate and methodical erosion of someone's character by making "knowing" comments, or "suggestions" or other references to the person's character when they cannot defend themselves -- because of course these utterances are never posed to the person themself.
"She can't make decisions"
"He's ALWAYS saying that..."
"If you ask me, I think that..."
And on it goes. It's insidious because the person under attack likely has their guard down, believing they are among friends.
-----------------------------------------------------

Dana:
"For example, I'm short. And most of the time I'm pretty good humored about it.'

That's interesting:
You're not short on friends, not short on MA expertise, not short on insight, not short on enthusiasm, ability, or people who say wonderful things about you.
Plus, you're head and shoulders above many martial artists AND people I know.

So ... ? I don't get it. (cyber-hug?) :)

NM


.
The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

She means she`s not tall Neil !!! 8)

Everyone has things that bug them , I doubt anyone that knows Dana thinks she`s anything but a Giant .

hey Neil ... why have you never offered me a hug :silly:
2Green
Posts: 1503
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 1999 6:01 am
Location: on the path.

Post by 2Green »

Ha! You're right about that!

Hey man, you'll get a hug when we meet, and not before, brother.

Then we'll get into the Uechi!

Arms up!

NM
The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.
Stryke

Post by Stryke »

Keiths aint watery is it Neil ? 8) :lol:
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