Bunkai

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Postby MikeK » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:49 pm

Maybe we should be posting clips of Bunkai?


Can there be bunkai without kata? :wink:
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:09 am

Rick was showing me some applications of sanchin.

But in the first two kata's of shotokan and many other styles, (you know, the 'I' shaped kata that has the long horse stance with the feet facing out and an exaggerated "Sanchin" step. )
Do those katas have bunkai? I know, that they were made for kindergarden kids, but do those have some sort of application?
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Postby MikeK » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:21 am

1) The pinan/heian were not meant for kindergarden kids.
2) Yes there is bunkai and they are pretty obvious once you see them.
3) Are they the bunkai that was originally taught? Who knows? :wink:
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Postby Stryke » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:28 am

I think the Heian are actually really good application wise .

But that opens up all sorts of questions .

It makes me assume Itosu knew the applications . Or that the human mind is infinitely creative :lol:

they were for teaching in schools though yes Mike ? , kindergarden may be a stretch :lol:
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Postby MikeK » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:46 am

I'm still not sure if they were developed to teach junior high kids or it was just the way they were taught that made it OK to teach the kids. With all the breaks and knee smashes I find it doubtful that he included those for the kids.
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Postby fivedragons » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:36 am

i'm no expert but if you take the pinan series and open the hands, shorten the stances, spend all the time you're not doing kata in thinking of ways to damage the human body, you'll probably find out it's not made for little kids fighting in the schoolyard. :wink:

Also, for every "block" make sure you're aware of the simultaneous returning hand, then replace the word "block" with "strike" and "lever" also think of "clearing" and "ripping".

Another artifice is the separation of movement into little segments that give no hint of the possibilities inherent in three dimensional movement. In other words sideways, upwards, downwards, circular and straight can all be used to augment and harmonize with each other, creating something that is more than the sum of a sterile collection of "events".

It's just dancing, but so is fighting for survival. :lol:

About the stances, I practice low stances all the time. That's for the ability to react efficiently regardless of the situation you might find yourself in. Most classical kata do a pretty good job of recreating the archetypes of physical stress that one might be placed in. The same kata can be practiced legitimately many ways with emphasis on offensive, defensive, application and training. You can take an arm movement and lower the stance, then you've got the basis of a lever and throw, a lock or a neck crank. To make the throw effective, you might have to raise back to an upright position during the movement, or the other way around.

These patterns where made for a reason, and it wasn't for
P.E. class. :lol: The thing is, part of making a good pattern that is useful, or making use out of a pattern, is finding the difference between foundational and contextual movement.

It's really just moving meditation anyway. :lol:

:lol: Actually as you can tell, I am a expert on dancing around the room slowly with a serious expression on my face. :lol:
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Postby Stryke » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:46 am

I beleive that the popular opinion is they were designed to make it easier to teach .

I actually think they have some of the best apps of all .

Different time and context I think Mike , I doubt they were overly concerned with the results of being to deadly or too irresponsble .

they actually beleived people training would improve along with there skill .

You Uechi folks teach kids far more viscous kata these days why would he be conscerned with it being to dangerous , it`s a fighting art .

Actually as you can tell, I am a expert on dancing around the room slowly with a serious expression on my face.


only if you dont have a makiwara , and you do it with a partner .... 8)

ok ok I didnt mention kumites ;) 8)
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Postby fivedragons » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:47 am

Stryke,

I don't have a makiwara, and I wouldn't want anyone to have to be my partner. :lol:

Oh well.... :lol:

I feel that I look really serious though. :lol:

Wouldn't it be cool if someone posted a clip of themself doing sanchin and broke the lens of the videocamera with thier kiai? :lol:

Now that would be karate. :lol:
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Postby Stryke » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:50 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:


With my Kiai ? , folks think my face could probably do the trick .... :silly:
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