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 Post subject: Arm Rubbing Flow Dills
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:46 pm 
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This thread will serve as the holding place for the development, discussion, and refinement of arm-rubbing based two person flow drills.

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Let us not say anything further about why a traditional Uechi drill may or may not be to your liking. That is small conversation and one that doesn't go anywhere. Let's move forward with a larger conversation on what we can create together.


For the genesis of this thread please read this one:
http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=15061

Now...off we go!

Happy training,
Dana

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Last edited by Dana Sheets on Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:10 pm 
Heres a good starting point .

heres an example Of Gem using arm rubbing as force on force

http://fileserver.uechi-ryu.com/videos/ ... ds_med.asf

developing a feel for grounding and alignment .

very Yang this one !!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:41 pm 
http://uechi-ryu.com/videos/gem_cond_1.wmv

Now look at this clip a clear transfer , how about adding footwork and maintaining the contact , instead of a focus on pounding maybe emphasise the angling and slight blading as Gem does .

there was a much better clip of George doing this stuff wish i could find it .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:07 pm 
Ok heres a simple Drill i use from the outside position , I do a variation with a hooking hand on the inside also .

http://banffuechiryu.tripod.com/absorbing.wmv

i see it as arm rubbing but yeilding with instead of opposing .

you can also visualise it as the sanchin draw .

lots to play with here , Caveat :wink: this clip is rough it was Patricks first time at it and it`s old

Also credit where it`s due , it`s very close to 1 of Hanshi Patrick McCarthys tegumi drills , and it`s not a coincidence , he started me exploring this way .

I suggest anyone interested in exploring two man drills gets his Material , and shortcuts a lot of groundwork for themselves .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:34 pm 
Good stuff make, I can see you that kind of drill would develop the tactile senisitivity to read and redirect.

The soft side of Uechi is something that eludes me at times....most time. GEM speaks of this approach often and in may cases the yangster bulls like me just miss what he is saying. :)

This is an area I can use more work in sensing and using my opponents energy.I tend to try to create my own openings instead of feeding of whats put on my plate.

I was up in Edmonton last night playing with Rick's crew. Spent some time in the elevator with brother Stan who pinned my head and neck to the wall with his forearm while he held the threat to my ribs. This is the exact drawing turning motion that sent his head running into the block wall! We were working application of this absorption last night.

BTW Rick, those wall pads are no good that low. :lol: No holes in the wall board, no blood on the blocks, and they said we had no control. :lol: Had some fun last night!

Good thread anyone else got any drills that flow off of the rub?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:44 pm 
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This should be interesting...

I think it's important to establish exactly what you want to train before creating "new drills." Any drills using tactile sensitivity will “program” something. Figuring out what kinds of attributes you want or need should guide the development of the drills and they should ideally use a structure reinforced by existing practice. Different drills like the one Marcus is doing there <very cool Marcus> is very different than what GEM is doing and both are different from what I do – be aware what seeds are planted.

The best thing IMO, if possible, would be to get a grounding in the sticking drills found in CMA that are very similar in structure to Uechi. These drills will be well developed and well understood and can provide a base that will fit in with whatever the core energy strategy and therefore structure/movements that are used in Uechi.

If I thought that strategy was the same a WCK I would suggest using that but I have my doubts. Still when I get a chance I'll get my buddy and see if we can put something on a clip..

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Last edited by JimHawkins on Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:49 pm 
Thanks Guys , Jim i`m gonna pm you about another variant i`m doing , I need some help .

I agree you have to be carefull what your programing , Mine always refer to positional strategy and entrys , This ones the most obvious to me as It takes an outside line and puts me in position for many Shotokan apps .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:52 pm 
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Cool! 8)

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"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:52 am 
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This is a wonderful wonderful start.

I've got to get myself more video clip able and find someone to be a guinea pig on video. Video as part of the discussion will advance this effort much more quickly than text or pictures by themselves.

Those first clips are great. And yes Stryke - I do recognize one of the many from Patrick McCarthy's Tegumi toolbox.

So what I see as a next and easy step is to simply change the various bridge patterns. So in stead of being on the outside dealing with the line of force - be with at least one arm on the inside dealing with the line of force. Which means you'll naturally want to project your force back and them - so they'll need something to do to make the drill circular that you must again redirect.

A flow drill doesn't have to be A,B,A,B,A,B until someone wants to break the pattern and go for freestyle (which is, of course, the eventual goal) it could be A,B,C,D,A,B,C,D,A,B,C,D. Which folks may have seen if they're familiar with some of the stick & knife flow drills taught by Raffi and the FMA community. I can still hear those sticks clacking in my head. And what Raffi is quick to always show is that any stick/knife flow drill can also be done with the empty hand.

Like chi sao the goal is to get the movement out of your upper brain (where inner dialogue and stuff slow you down but rather to move the ability to move continuously in the environment of physical engagement as close to the low brain as possible...without needlessly activating the high emotions of the low brain.

That is the paradox in your brain. The same place where the fastest physical reactions live is also the closest to where your reactive emotional center lives. So it really is a trick to fight from a place of no emotion - because you're actually hard wired to fight with LOTS of emotion.

But I digress.

Stryke - one idea I would have for you to think about is instead of stay in one place on the bridge as you receive - look at sliding your bridge as you receive - should turn their body a little more and your body a little less. In order to be able to respond to your return strike your partner will have to learn to do the same.

Arrgh...must go make posting clips something I can do at home....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:19 pm 
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some arnis video online

http://www.martialartsresource.com/abass/_videos.html

and while I'd not suggest doing it with a live blade...

Go here:
http://us.share.geocities.com/kalipages3/

and pick the "Live Blade Knife Tapping Demo (1.4m)"

Again - these aren't what I want to do, but it is the kind of thing...however I'd prefer it not to be receive, receive, receive, all the time as in this drill but more of a strike counter-strike strike, change angle or side, strike counter-strike strike, pattern

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:35 pm 
i`m with ya Dana , that was just a simple clip , some stuff I had lying around .



Quote:
So what I see as a next and easy step is to simply change the various bridge patterns. So in stead of being on the outside dealing with the line of force - be with at least one arm on the inside dealing with the line of force. Which means you'll naturally want to project your force back and them - so they'll need something to do to make the drill circular that you must again redirect.


Ive got paterns for almost all positions now , the goal as you say being spontaneous chi-sau

however i`d disagree that creating them into a pattern is necessary .

the footwork and body movement is personal , I prefer more rotation , I do different versions I do the no rotation version and the rotation version , it`s a different tool for a different purpose , I prefer to use my body than my arm as much as possible . Footwork is actually simple in these drills once you have them down , and add surprising results .



Quote:
Stryke - one idea I would have for you to think about is instead of stay in one place on the bridge as you receive - look at sliding your bridge as you receive - should turn their body a little more and your body a little less. In order to be able to respond to your return strike your partner will have to learn to do the same.


Absolutley but was Patricks first time , walk before we can run :D , But i again dont think it any better just different , my initial goal on this is to develop receiving sensitivity from the outside , force on force would be counter productive at the beginning IMHO .

Look forward to more from others .


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 Post subject: Flow Drills
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:16 am 
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From a bibliographical point of view, you might want to reference the 2 video set of Pangai Noon/Uechi Ryu by Mark Stewart.

Volume 2 contains many flow drills that originated with William Keith and James Thompson

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/karatemart1/panoryukapa2.html

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In this tape, Mark introduces training drills designed to develop the hidden motions found in the katas of Uechi Ryu Karate. Mark explains the sticky hand drill, the double sticky hand drill, the forward energy drill and the wauke circle block drill, all of which come from the Okinawan iron body drills.

Sensi Sumpter in Philadelphia is also a potential source of information due to his White Crane training. I think you mentioned his drills in a post some m onths ago.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:24 am 
I`d like to see them .

for the recors I think theres a huge difference between a sesitivity drill and a flow drill . While they can be both I`m not certain if folks arent confusing the two .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:12 pm 
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I'd love to see them too.. Even with my powers of file acquisition I doubt that I could find that one on the web.. If anyone might have a clip of that tape please post. If these drills train useful concepts with depth and are grounded in Uechi structure then I say check them out.

I'm guessing he "borrowed" and/or modified some drills, unless he discovered these in the secret Uechi cavern hidden on Okinawa.

True about the flow drills sensitivity thing. I think for selling tapes the terms are mainly used to attract folks who have heard of these terms. Flow is about continuity of movement with special attention to fluidity and conservation of momentum. Sensitivity is about programming automatic responses <attacks, counter attacks, force management> to certain energy conditions based on feel. The more advanced sensitivity drills also train flow and are freeform.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:18 pm 
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Quote:
sesitivity drill and a flow drill


Ah...hadn't thought about that so much. I see the two as closely linked.
Hmmm...I'll think about that.

It would be better to get Mark's permission before posting a clip of copyrighted materal...

Does someone have his contact info? Maybe I can find him on the web. I'm not sure he's still teaching Uechi.

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