Saying Goodbye

CANDANeh · Post by **CANDANeh** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:47 am

dream car indeed, great rush pulling out of your garage in that 'shark" I bet. P225/50VR17 on there for rubbers??
Hope you have Michelins on that baby

check out pilot series MXM4 . http://www.michelinman.com/catalog/tire ... ?source=ta

Good rooting ...powerful stance

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:08 am

Leo,

As soon as my daughter saw the 530 she said the same thing_ about looking like a shark

She feels like riding on rails. Tires_ I haven't checked yet.

CANDANeh · Post by **CANDANeh** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:35 am

"Tires_ I haven't checked yet."

In a few short years...look for these "Shark fins"
The radial is something we are leaving behind, like the bias ply(remember that ?)
No air (bullet proof) and very light weight with unlimited speed rating

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:57 pm

Amazing.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:24 pm

Benefits of Tweel™:

The heart of Tweel innovation is its deceptively simple looking hub and spoke design that replaces the need for air pressure while delivering performance previously only available from pneumatic tires. The flexible spokes are fused with a flexible wheel that deforms to absorb shock and rebound with unimaginable ease. Without the air needed by conventional tires, Tweel still delivers pneumatic-like performance in weight-carrying capacity, ride comfort, and the ability to "envelope" road hazards.

Michelin has also found that it can tune Tweel performances independently of each other, which is a significant change from conventional tires. This means that vertical stiffness (which primarily affects ride comfort) and lateral stiffness (which affects handling and cornering) can both be optimized, pushing the performance envelope in these applications and enabling new performances not possible for current inflated tires. The Tweel prototype, demonstrated on the Audi A4, is within five percent of the rolling resistance and mass levels of current pneumatic tires. That translates to within one percent of the fuel economy of the OE fitment. Additionally, Michelin has increased the lateral stiffness by a factor of five, making the prototype unusually responsive in its handling.

http://www.michelinman.com/difference/r ... l?source=1

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:26 pm

They say they've re-invented the wheel - I wouldn't go that far.

But this is definately something new. The only bad things that i've heard about this tire is that the noise made while driving is 'louder' or 'different' than traditional tires. I guess that's what they are working on now.

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:24 pm

What about the cost factor?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:47 pm

I dunno... I kind of like Leo's newfangled tire over the tweel. Somehow riding a car with one of those things seems a bit like replacing a traditional ash bat with aluminum. I never could get used to "Boink!"

But then they replaced the Harley chain with a belt. Who knows...

Keep us up to date on those tires. Leo. I've seen some new ones that I like.

Never, ever underestimate what a proper set of high performance tires can do for your ride. I could tell you stories, both from my motorcycle and from various vehicles I rode. I never forget the nasty Bridgestones that came with my Suzuki 750. I was getting rather tired of fishtailing every time I gunned it under less-than-ideal conditions. Then someone turned me on to some high performance Dunlops. I thought I died and went to heaven!

I got rid of the "General" tires on my van that put me into a 360 on some black ice last winter. Ever since I got my four high-performance Michelins, I've been extremely happy. Even something simple like starting from a dead stop out of my development and out onto the highway is 100% better.

Let us know what you have on your Shark, Van.

- Bill

CANDANeh · Post by **CANDANeh** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:59 pm

Yea...were working on the noise and I assure you it will be non issue in due time. Cost... when they become a regular "sque" and roll off the line I will have vouchers for a mayor discount

. Right now military has great interest as they are virtually indestructable.

They say they've re-invented the wheel - I wouldn't go that far.

For the tire industry it amounts to exactly
re -inventing the wheel, the technology involved in design let alone producing is staggering and costly. Seems like a simple concept but the fins must react like air pressure allowing the "tire" to flex on high speed cornering and maintain KM (tread) contact on the road surface that high perfomance tires must produce. This invention I`ve been told by those who drove the latest prototypes that the vehicule moves and reponds with accuracy never experienced on wheels before (like Kentucky Fried chicken...can say no more as shhhhhh...secret )
Had one in my hands back in July when they were first revealed, the picture doesn`t do it justice and expect to see aspect changes to make it even more appealing to consumers.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:00 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote:I dunno... I kind of like Leo's newfangled tire over the tweel.

They are both the same tire.

CANDANeh wrote:were working on the noise and I assure you it will be non issue in due time.

Yes, i've definately heard good things about the tire, and i'm sure you can fill me in @ class...except for the top secret spy stuff

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:03 pm

It's difficult to see they are the new tire with the two views. But now I see.

Something has to be done about the combination of the mag wheels and those compressible rods though. Aesthetically it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm sure they'll figure that out in due time.

Van

On the driving front... We had our first (substantial) snowstorm of the year yesterday. Richmond once again was on the dividing line between snow and rain, and ended up with over 100 accidents by the end of the day from the ice. A day in the life of... Over 14,000 people are without power today. Why? Primarily from cars running into utility poles.

- Bill

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:19 pm

Shark rides on 225/50R-17x7.5 ‘CONTI-TOURING-CONTACT’ tires_ made in Germany.

Bill, what do you know about them?

Initially I had opted for 18-inch wheels [run flats] but changed my mind after reading on BMW forums that because of stiffness and low profile they would give a harsh ride.

The CONTIs ride like a dream. Sports sedan performance but with a luxury feel.

Bill, would the BMW _ All wheel drive_ have prevented those accidents?

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:33 pm

Bill,

The most amazing things I am experiencing so far with this car, is the 'Adaptive Xenon Headlights' that swivel into road curves and side street turns, mated to steering wheel action.

And the high beam assist that switches high beams on and off automatically depending on oncoming traffic and road illumination ahead.

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:38 pm

Wear resistant. Hydroplaning resistant. Uniform ride with minimal noise. Unique compound lowers rolling resistance for better gas mileage. Excellent wet and snow traction.

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/w ... er_en.html

? Made in Germany or US?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:21 pm

Bruce Hirabayashi and Leo are the tire gurus. Let's let them comment before we amateurs do.

I agree however about your choice of tire. If it's strictly performance you are going for - no holds barred - then you want the big rims with the slim, stiff tires. The thicker wheels and a slightly "softer" suspension will take a way a touch of the road feel and dampen the response a bit, but... they take away a touch of the road feel and dampen the response.

You have to optimize your performance for something. Optimize for offroad or deep snow and you aren't going to be doing 140 on the Autobann. Optimize for the Autobann and you aren't going to be 4-wheeling it offroad in the mountains. Optimize for a pimpmobile ride and you'll feel like your car's on novocaine when doing the slalom. Optimize for longevity and you sacrifice the quality of an athletic ride. Etc.

Some of the newer technologies (like the tire Leo showed us) would perhaps broaden the capabilities a bit so you don't have to sacrifice so much in one venue to get optimum in the next. And I particularly like some of the newer supsensions that adapt to your driving at the moment and even are manually adjustable.

As for the AWD and the Richmond ice scenario... Yes, it absolutely would help some - as long as you stay away from the person 3 feet to the left who's now driving backwards.

Leo (I believe) alluded to the nonsense of people gunning their cars to get up a slippery hill. Those who have a feel for it all and those who understand physics understand that the smarter thing to do (barring high technology) is to start your vehicle in 2nd gear and proceed gently and evenly. The issue here is static friction vs. kinetic friction. Static friction is what keeps your tire and the road from moving with respect to each other. There is a "breakaway" point where you start to slide. That's sometimes referred to as the coefficient of static friction. Once you have lost traction, you now are in the realm of kinetic friction. These are the "sheer forces" when one surface moves with respect to another.

The coefficient of static friction is larger than the coefficient of kinetic friction. This is an important concept to understand. Basically it means you want to prevent yourself from sliding in the first place. Once you start sliding, bad things can happen.

In a classic FWD or RWD system, all the torque goes to either the 2 front wheels or the 2 rear wheels. That torque exerts a force on the wheels which moves the car with respect to the pavement beneath it. As long as the force exerted by the wheels against the road is less than the coefficient of static friction, you will not slide and your vehicle will move in a well-behaved fashion. Once you break the static bond between tire and road, it's harder to get it back and it's much more difficult to control the vehicle.

With AWD, you distribute the torque amongst all 4 wheels. The BMW X-Drive system pioneered an AWD system where most (close to 70%) of the torque goes to the rear wheels, This helps maintain that RWD feel, which keeps you from understeering in sharp turns and prevents the feel of acceleration fighting with steering. Other drive systems (the ATESSA system form Nissan, the simple system in the 300C and Magnum from Daimler Chrysler) have since copied this RWD bias configuration.

Anyhow by distributing the force amongst all 4 wheels, you're less likely to break traction in any one wheel. As long as you don't break traction, none of the fancy electronic controls need to come into play.

But this is where it gets better.

BMW's X-Drive system is capable of adapting when it senses one wheel has broken traction. When that happens, the system disconnects the torque from that wheel, and sends it to the others. So if you hit a small patch of ice, at least one wheel is likely to maintain traction and you're probably not going to experience ice-skating driving. The Germans are leaders in this technology. BMW, VW/Audi, and Mercedes all have competing systems that work to redistribute torque to wheels other than the wheels that are slipping. They each do it in a slightly different fashion. Nissan has its own unique version that is kind of interesting. But they all are much better than not having that extra compensation.

As long as you remember that AWD does not mean AW stop, you're much better off than the next person on the road.

- Bill

Saying Goodbye

great wheels

Your fins...

The Tweel

Cost

Conti Contacts