I was reading about, yes, knees ... and found them a bit more complicated than I thought. I think most of us have an image of a simple hinge, which works for most of knee action; but there is also axial rotation about the shin. It's best illustrated by taking the weight off you leg, bending it about 90 degrees and rotating your ankle from 11 to 1 o'clock. Something changes when your legs bear your body weight, they won't allow rotation until locking your leg "screw" your knee joint in place.
Stuff like this amazes me and explains that little turn in my foot position I got locking out a front kick.
Knees, not as simple as they seem
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thumper_wabbit_dammit
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- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:42 am
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Stryke
theres alot more to the knees for sure .
I think one of the biggest mistakes (I know I`ll get disagreement) In front kicks is to teach the knees together Up and kick , the leg doesnt go straight down , a slight gap is necessary to align the hips and get the force going straight .
the gap between the knees on me is probably about six inches maybe half the stance width , so as the kick goes to the centre you naturally load , bringing things in tight and it`s lost .
the leg from below the knee then tends to splay outward but then the ankle ever so slighty brings this back in , and you end up with the hips behind your forward drive .
without the slight gap I find the curve of the leg takes the foot out the hip out but the knee in , upsettng the optimal alignment IMHO .
thsi of course is getting fairly er technical , somthing I seldom will admit too
I think one of the biggest mistakes (I know I`ll get disagreement) In front kicks is to teach the knees together Up and kick , the leg doesnt go straight down , a slight gap is necessary to align the hips and get the force going straight .
the gap between the knees on me is probably about six inches maybe half the stance width , so as the kick goes to the centre you naturally load , bringing things in tight and it`s lost .
the leg from below the knee then tends to splay outward but then the ankle ever so slighty brings this back in , and you end up with the hips behind your forward drive .
without the slight gap I find the curve of the leg takes the foot out the hip out but the knee in , upsettng the optimal alignment IMHO .
thsi of course is getting fairly er technical , somthing I seldom will admit too
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Bill Glasheen
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- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
There are a lot of subtleties to kicking for sure. And there are a lot of opinions on how to do even a simple front snap kick.
I have my own way, which involves a number of subtle degrees of freedom of motion of both extending and support legs. And then you can throw in a little bit of pelvis action. And then I have a front thrust kick vs. a snap kick, the many different surfaces of the foot you can hit with that change the way you do the kick ever so slightly, etc., etc.
What works best for me is when I can have a kid come into class who is a "natural" kicker, and find there's little change I need to do to make him do things at least one of "my" ways. If that's the way it works out, then you know you aren't too far off...
I admit I'm having trouble picturing what you're doing, Marcus. But at least on the surface I can appreciate how one's style may differ from what others say is the "right" way to do things. If you aren't tweaking and finding out what works best for you, then you aren't really getting it IMO.
And if you don't use the damn thing at least in your sparring, well that tells a lot to me. I can't tell you how many taequondo folks I've convinced to do front kicks "my" way simply because they never believed in or used their own versions of a front kick. Whenever someone thinks a front kick is an "inferior" or "not very useful" kick, I know I've found a learning opportunity.
- Bill
I have my own way, which involves a number of subtle degrees of freedom of motion of both extending and support legs. And then you can throw in a little bit of pelvis action. And then I have a front thrust kick vs. a snap kick, the many different surfaces of the foot you can hit with that change the way you do the kick ever so slightly, etc., etc.
What works best for me is when I can have a kid come into class who is a "natural" kicker, and find there's little change I need to do to make him do things at least one of "my" ways. If that's the way it works out, then you know you aren't too far off...
I admit I'm having trouble picturing what you're doing, Marcus. But at least on the surface I can appreciate how one's style may differ from what others say is the "right" way to do things. If you aren't tweaking and finding out what works best for you, then you aren't really getting it IMO.
And if you don't use the damn thing at least in your sparring, well that tells a lot to me. I can't tell you how many taequondo folks I've convinced to do front kicks "my" way simply because they never believed in or used their own versions of a front kick. Whenever someone thinks a front kick is an "inferior" or "not very useful" kick, I know I've found a learning opportunity.
- Bill
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Stryke
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Stryke
Actually Bill , if youve got Toyamas clip of his kick saved I think he`s operating the same way .
I might be wanting to see it , but look at how wide is legs/knees are apart , theres no huge sense of tucking them in together and coming through the middle IMHO
It`s a side veiw but the easy way to tell is how square and flat he manages to keep his hips and how natural the momentum is .
But were talking subtleties , it`s not obvious or large .
I might be wanting to see it , but look at how wide is legs/knees are apart , theres no huge sense of tucking them in together and coming through the middle IMHO
It`s a side veiw but the easy way to tell is how square and flat he manages to keep his hips and how natural the momentum is .
But were talking subtleties , it`s not obvious or large .
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thumper_wabbit_dammit
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Tom Faigle
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Re: Knees, not as simple as they seem
As someone who has who has knee problems, and bad "genetics" in the knee department (thanks mom) I can tell you all about the terrible design of the knee. Of course, lots of racquetball and diving on the hardwood didn't help. But by doing exercises, and eating well I've managed to go from them hurting all of the time to only some times!!!thumper_wabbit_dammit wrote:I was reading about, yes, knees ... and found them a bit more complicated than I thought. I think most of us have an image of a simple hinge, which works for most of knee action; but there is also axial rotation about the shin. It's best illustrated by taking the weight off you leg, bending it about 90 degrees and rotating your ankle from 11 to 1 o'clock. Something changes when your legs bear your body weight, they won't allow rotation until locking your leg "screw" your knee joint in place.
Stuff like this amazes me and explains that little turn in my foot position I got locking out a front kick.
