Ukemi

[Dana Sheets]

Sal opened up a discusion of Ukemi on Bill's forum. Recently, one of our students began training in Aikido. I was fasinated to learn that they teach women and men to fall differently - based on the idea of center of balance.

Women are taught more of a "high to low" forward roll and men are taught a more linear from roll.

When I was taught judo we were all taught the same way to fall and did only falling for the first three months. That focus made us pretty skilled pretty quickly. Though I'll never forget the line of contact bruises that appeared one morning down the side of my body after training when several 6' tall guys who had trained for several years had been smashing the lot of us into the mat from a high overhead throw. Didn't hurt mind you, just looked spectatular.

So I'm curious if folks who've done any cross-training in Aikido have heard about a different falling method for women?

Thanks,
Dana

[Jake Steinmann]

Dana,

I trained in Aikido for four and a half years, and the opportunity to work with a number of different instructors. I've never heard of different ukemi based on gender. It really doesn't make sense to me, honestly.

[benzocaine]

I always thought Aikido taught that the center was the same for all. Your Hara or Tan Dein.

[jorvik]

it is, but there are different types of aikido that use different types of Ukemi.
Traditional will use a type of takedown when they do Ikkyo whereas sport will do this like an irish whip. the best way to learn "rolling" is from kneeling

[AAAhmed46]

This is kind of stupid, but......

would it be wise to practice Ukemi on hard floor? I mean falling in a way where you ALREADY know you can save yourself?

You know, just to get the feel of it better.

[Dana Sheets]

I used to do dive rolls across the stage in the theatre after I'd learned how to fall in college. The hard floor teaches you how to soften your body movements - so the way you stiffen your body is better timed to how things are impacting to minimize the pain.

So yes - I found it useful to do...and keep in mind that I was 19 and did not worry about being sore the next day.

To this day I do falls on the wooden aerobics floor at the gym to encourage students to not be afraid of falling into the mat. I want them to believe the training will work for them as well as it has worked for me. So I tell them that the point of having the mats is to teach them to fall so that we can take the mats away and they'll still be safe.

Actually just last night a student told me that the day before she had tripped over a curb and stumbled forward - and did a lovely forward fall that kept her face out of of the pavement and her clothes clean. After a very hard fall on cement all she had was a stubbed toe and slightly scuffed hands.

So I'm all for doing what is relatively reasonable for building your confidence in your falling beyond a shadow of a doubt. My judo teachers told me that in their training in Korea they did only falling for one year. After that time they had to do falls from 5 meters high - onto mats. Then they were allowed to learn the throws.

Of course that was the school that trained their olympic competitors - so they definitely were trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

[AAAhmed46]

Awsome thanks.

[RACastanet]

This is kind of stupid, but......

would it be wise to practice Ukemi on hard floor? I mean falling in a way where you ALREADY know you can save yourself?

You know, just to get the feel of it better.

The Marine program generally trains company size groups, or larger. I have seen over 500 Marines being taught ukemi at one time. It sounds like a herd of buffalo stampeding.

Needless to say there are no mats out in the training field or landing zone or whatever place is used. You get the surface you happen to be standing on. Even if you can find a spot of grass it is quickly worn down and the ground is pounded hard. This time of year the ground is rough and dried rock hard. In January it is frozen solid. About the only soft spots are the piles of deer poop deposited every night!

Plus, the Marines might be wearing a lot of field gear.

Trust me, this teaches you how to fall properly very quicky.

Rich

[jorvik]

I'll chime in here partly so I can post this nice link
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 01&q=kempo

It is no biggy falling on wooden floors, they are elastic and there is some bounce, however concrete is different if it ain't got some give it will hurt like hell or just break something....you can test your body to destrutcion if you want ..and at some point it will break,at some point that breakfall will not work. The most common cause of death in a streetfight is somebody banging their head on the ground.even from a sucker punch....and the baddy will only get a "Manslaughter" rap because there was no intent to kill ( in my country..don't know about the US)
So by all means try to learn good Ukemi but don't take it too far

[AAAhmed46]

Yeah i wouldnt even THINK of trying that on concrete

[f.Channell]

I trained with a guy who used to post here a few years ago.
He trained with Jimmy Pedro who is a 3-4 time Judo Olympian and he won a silver I think at the worlds.

This guy told me he didn't teach his students how to fall because he wanted them to win.

They only teach you how to fall so your training partner can practice his throws to completion. Not to become a better fighter.

F.

[Dana Sheets]

Originally posted by Sal on Bll's forum...

Please remember that ukemi, although important, has little use when a nage(throw) is done PROPERLY!!! Nages were ment to be fight stoppers. In short they were used to kill or seriouly injure your opponent. Most nages in Japanese Jujutsu when executed have the opponent landing on their heads. No slap out possible. It wasn't until the advent of Judo, Aikido, Shorinji Kempo and nippon kempo That Ukemi became what we know I as today.

...do not forget that Ukemi has a martial element to it. There are only a few modern and old schools that teach it. Do you remember my Jujutsu seminar in Germany. What I showed to you about what you can do with breakfalls and rollouts. Remember I always take something with me.