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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:26 am
Posts: 145
Location: Around the World
I am sure they are just working on the words to express themselves in a positive manner...I mean this is what a forum is all about....

But the more you talk about something you will get one of 4 types of people....

Type 1 - I have been there, done that and got the t-shirt.....(the funny thing is it has been a LONG time since they tried that shirt on, and I BET it doesn't fit anymore).....(The Wanna Be!)

Type 2 - I know what your talking about because I have done it before...it may of may not have turned out the same way but hey nothing really does...(A true professional)

Type 3 - Hey I heard that if you did this then something like this would happen, I have personally never done it but I heard about it and I think with all of my years of doing something else...I think this would happen......(The person who loves to hear themselves talk!)

Type 4 - You know I have been practicing 20 years and never have heard of this, so I do not think that would ever happen and I do not believe you....(The legend in their own mind person)

Type 5 - What if you did this, What if you did that, What if the person did this, What is the person did that, What if this happened, What is this happened when you did this and then he did that...(The What If person)

Now that I have started this please other continue..you do not have to put their name to the definition but you all know people with unique qualities.....lets see how many types of people we can define.....

Dave


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Posts: 3519
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
Quote:
Type 5 - What if you did this, What if you did that, What if the person did this, What is the person did that, What if this happened, What is this happened when you did this and then he did that...(The What If person)


STOP MAKING FUN OF ME!!!! :lol: :evil:


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 Post subject: Hey triple AAA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:26 am
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Location: Around the World
Definitely NOT making fun of you unless I have described you without meeting you yet.. :rofl: :2gunfire: lol

Please put a few definitions down that you know of.....

Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:41 am 
if answered Id be gone ....... or looked down on .


how about I ask a question instead , what do folks expect in terms of reality from there training , how does it provide it ?


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 Post subject: Reality
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:26 am
Posts: 145
Location: Around the World
Stryke wrote:
if answered Id be gone ....... or looked down on .


how about I ask a question instead , what do folks expect in terms of reality from there training , how does it provide it ?


Well for me we only train for the reality of the situation because we deal with saving lives. The type of people we train are preparing for a real life encounter where their own lives will be in danger or the lives of a loved one.

So I am assuming, when I train them they are in this mind set. If they are not then I have to get this mind set up and running before the training can begin.

When we train for defending ourselves or another we have to be sure the techniques are sound maning they will work on the average time applied, easy to remember so the way it is presented allows the student to learn the technique in the stress environment they will be needed to perform in, and effective in the real world we live in meaning it is not field proven then it is just a good idea....

We have a great number of resources to go back on from FBI Statistics, Uniform Crime Report even unfortunately the Officer Down Section (this is where an officer has lost their life and died on the job) on various locations to review the real deal as they say...

I would imagine if civilians had some of these resources even if the obituaries were more detailed on how the person died we would not have some of the misdirected people out there selling the bags of BS that other buy into.

we have grown throughout the years on how techniques are presented and taught. Using various teaching methods through demonstrations, attention gainers, motor skill development, low and high level simulations, training aids like strike bag and other training props, and even through live confrontations. Most teach people how to hit, block, kick, but when to do this in a real fight, the art of defending yourself under stress, the mental preparation needed to win in combat are greatly over looked...

This is one of the main problems with this area....commercialization and business have spear headed this industry from the basic traditional morals we al try to reinforce.

You asked how does it provide it?...........We actually fail them when they do not mean the EXACT performance level...provide re-training then test again. If you cannot get perfection in training when their are no life threatening factors,how can you expect to get a "Survival Level of Proficiency in real life!"

We try to remove ego, and reinforce it with true confidence, we try to remove self-praise and reinforce it with moral courage, we focus on the foundation before we start to build a house, and if it is not done correct we do it again...for some the lights come on faster then others.....but it is a process..

I reinforce to all of me adjuncts (instructors) that it is an HONOR ad PRIVILEGDE to teach to someone and that THEY need to be placed on the pedestal...I mean they are the ones INSTRUSTING YOU with their life!

I hope that answered your question....and not to long of a reply...Thanks for the asking...

Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:30 am 
Thanks Dave , your complerte approach , is from a self defence point of veiw .

I appreciate a pure proffessional and self defence focused approach .

I meant my query more to the mixture folks out there , the ones that teach what theyed call traditional karate and try and mix in some self defence aspect .

how do individuals approach blending the two ?

what would you suggest from your veiwpoint ? , do we sperate or integrate , do we blur the line or do we need to be honest and delineate areas of expertise , and distance ourselves from what is and what isnt realistic ? , does that mean admitting what is and isnt certain in our own understanding ?


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 Post subject: My 2 cents
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:05 am 
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Location: Around the World
what would you suggest from your veiwpoint ? , do we sperate or integrate , do we blur the line or do we need to be honest and delineate areas of expertise , and distance ourselves from what is and what isnt realistic ? , does that mean admitting what is and isnt certain in our own understanding ?[/quote]

WOW that is the million dollar question. Since you asked me I will give you my two cents on this....

First I think we need to find out why we are doing the style you are doing. Example...I BELIEVE in traditional Marital Arts....

The History, Culture, the values it instills, the discipline. The forms, various movement, blocking, striking..the foundation you become a part of...and beauty of what it all encompasses.

Then the other side of me...the reality that in my career and job field I deal with life and death daily.....if you were a baker and made a mistake on the job you only burn the cookies.....in my field if I make a mistake the person I am training could die.....(yes I do take this very seriously, as ANYONE who is training someone to save their life should)....preparing others to do battle in and out of the courtroom....the fact that what I teach has to be fact..not someone personal opinion..(as a professional this motivates you to learn more and more each day)..we are not talking about teaching something you like or do not like..it is not about YOU..not about your own ego, your own likes and dislikes..IT IS ALL ABOUT THE STUDENT.......We teach A WAY of doing something...but through time and experience you learn that even though you are teaching A WAY, there are some better ways then other ways...everything changes, and if the instructors don't change then get behind the curve ball, and the student will evidently lose....

I think that separating the two is needed however in a way they can be blended together...Here is what my system adds and what I envisioning working with the IUKF on...
I am being general but have all of the specifics if interested...PM me if you are....

I am interested in you telling me what you think....

After the student receives their White belt....then should get additional training in the reality side of what they were just learning in the traditional training. This instills the relationship between Student and Instructor and provide a solid level of retention.....And then repeat this through each belt..up to 5th degree. Certifying the instructors in the dojos in training programs (woman, children, young adults) that will enhance their own knowledge base and increase the student's longevity....Also providing them with training they can get NO WHERE else in the world.....

I hope this helped answer your question...

Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:47 am 
Hi Dave thanks for the Candour , and I will PM you when I get the chance (55 hours in 5 days I`m fried right now)


I dont know if yout familiar with Rorys work , but I think the way to blur is to teach the traditional but to apply it to the rhinocerous and not the unicorn .


Quote:
First I think we need to find out why we are doing the style you are doing. Example...I BELIEVE in traditional Marital Arts....



I beleive to but I do styles to blend the gaps , I beleive in traditional training also , I LOVE UECHI !!!

Quote:
I am being general but have all of the specifics if interested...PM me if you are....


Absolutely interested , this is what I seek , peoples actual appraoch , and actual learning progressions , the history and politics is an interseting distant , and fascinating 6th or seventh place ;)

Quote:
I think that separating the two is needed however in a way they can be blended together


the million dollar question , the holistic approach .

Quote:
After the student receives their White belt....then should get additional training in the reality side of what they were just learning in the traditional training. This instills the relationship between Student and Instructor and provide a solid level of retention.....And then repeat this through each belt..up to 5th degree. Certifying the instructors in the dojos in training programs (woman, children, young adults) that will enhance their own knowledge base and increase the student's longevity....Also providing them with training they can get NO WHERE else in the world.....


why additional , wouldnt the optimal mean making it inclusive ?

maybe I`m being too semantic , thanks for your answer , hope more chime in .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:55 am 
My personal approach is to teach the traditional material but to explore applying it in response to more realistic scenarios .

I explore via Tony Blaurs Night of the living dead drill , and By introducing McCarthys Habitual acts of physical violence list .

Introducing weapons work etc .

the core base kata and principles remain but the objective is to relate them to violence and not a sport model or rulebound outcome .

reinforcing mindset and that the only option is survival , and you must overcome .

Adrenal conditioning via protective gear would also be on the wishlist but not yet :( .


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:26 am
Posts: 145
Location: Around the World
.....reinforcing mindset and that the only option is survival , and you must overcome.

There are MANY drills one can do without using ANY protective gear. In fact we did some at the Summerfest this year. There are stages when introducing students to reality drills, where they have to put technique together with stress, and meet a certain level of proficiency level..
The 8 levels of simulations is a great way to build their skills and reinforce the confidence that need.[/b]

..... Adrenal conditioning via protective gear would also be on the wishlist but not yet :( .[/quote]



I have identified 4 basic categories for student learning;


Awkward Stage - This is when the student is trying something for the first time. When they get to actually physically do it...think of it as a baby fawn trying to walk..they see their mother do it and they try to copy.

Guided Discovery - This is when they go through the motions in some order from the way they have seen it and heard it and by now they have tried it a few times......They will continue learning but will still try to throw in their own way of doing it until they come to realize they need to do it the way it was taught...

This is a good example of why it is harder to teach black belts to do something new then white belts....

Comfort Stage - This is when they are doing it from short term memory. They have heard it, seen it, and have got it out of their system trying to do it their way...(remember every student learns differently and YOU CANNOT TEACH them the way YOU LEARNED!)

Once these 3 stages have been completed then the student enters the Proficiency Building Stage - This is when they will building on the basics and perfect their skill within themselves and when they get at this stage they can be taught other things that add to what they were taught.....


If you skip a stage you prolong and at times hinder the learning process....

Hope that helps explain more...

Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:05 am
Posts: 1235
"WHere are all of the people Van Says Disappeared?"

I'm experimenting with sobriety.

Type 6: The person who only posts after he drinks half a case of beer, and engages in abstract circular conversations with the projections of his own deluded and paranoid mind.

Then I got pulled over on the information superhighway by Officer Talley. :lol:

Getting lots of exercise the last few days. 8O :lol:

Sorry for the meltdown, wish I could train with you. :? 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2001 6:01 am
Posts: 125
Location: Tallahassee, Fl, US
Quote:
Then I got pulled over on the information superhighway by Officer Talley.


I'll let you off with a warning this time mister.


Glad you are feeling better, stay strong. And don't worry it's just the internet, I'm sure no one was looking.

_________________
talleyuechi@comcast.net


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:05 am
Posts: 1235
8)


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