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Postby mhosea » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:53 pm

And my personal favorite from the Hitchhiker's Guide,

"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:57 pm

mhosea wrote:
AAAhmed46 wrote:SOME evangelical christians believe that if Masjid Al-Aqsa is destroyed and a temple is built on top, the second coming of christ will occur. IE a very heavy interest between evangelical christianity and isreal as well as Masjid Al-Aqsa.


I think you're right about that belief existing. I know the prophesies say that the temple will be rebuilt (again), and this is one of the signs of the end of the age. However, apocalyptophiles (I just made that word up ;-)) aren't really mainstream evangelicals, and after having him as a governor in Texas and obviously as a president for several years, I have accumulated zero reasons to suspect that Bush is into end-of-the-age prophecies. The mainstream evangelical point of view would be that God has a plan, only He knows the timeline, and this plan will unfold on its prearranged timeline no matter what anyone tries to do about it. The evangelical's goal is not to see the temple rebuilt or to spend their time contemplating the Second Coming, rather to convert as many people as possible before that occurs. It's the project deadline, if you will.


Thing is though... from internet arguements with some of them on various website ive realised somet things:

Bring up isreal and palistine and its pretty easy to predict where most evangelical christians stand on that conflict, how many hold a view that isreal can do no wrong, a black and white view instead of grey.

They almost always hate islam more then any other religion that they virtually almost say that islam tells muslims to eat babies. Despite the fact that the quran and the bible aren't too different, regardless of what your views on religion it self may be. Infact, the fact is that in Abysynia(yes bad spelling) now known as ethiopia had taken in muslims as refugees at islams birth, when the king learned of what mohammed was teaching he is recorded to have said "This religion is the way of jesus".
But that was pre-crusades.
(in terms of message they are the same, compilation of the quran compared to the bible is a different matter all together)







First let me say that I can't oppose the Christian fundametalist strongly enough.

But calling them the "Christain Taliban" is not only wrong, they are not even close to the Taliban and its murderous actions.

By calling them such you establish a sort of mental "equivilence" between the 2 groups.

What ever BS they have been pushing about "plan B"--and other nonsense--they are not running around cutting off people hands, executing adulters, stoning homosexuals, makeing it illegal to teach women to read or drive cars. And making not wearing the burka a death penalty offense.

They are NOT the Taliban.

Whatever they may or may not be thinking---and I agree with you that I don't care for what they have done/are doing.

Directly comparing them to the Taliban cheapens the crimes of the Taliban--and overly conflates the stance and powers of the Christain fundamentalist.


Your right, they are not the same.



But considering some of pat robertsons past comments, if he were to become a dictator, would it be as different as the taliban?

The only reason C-fundamentalists aren't as violent as islamic fundamentalists is because they happen to live in a developed country with checks and balances and democracy.


The fact america is a democracy with checks and balances is what keeps them from becoming like the taliban.


Let me underline im talking about FUNDAMENTLISTS and not christians or evangelican christians in general or even christianity in general, im talking about fundamentalists.
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Postby cxt » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:05 pm

Not a big fan of Robinson.

Guy has put his foot so far into his mouth so many times I find it odd that even his supporters can stick with him.

From a historical perspective, "Christians" have not been violent for quite some time.

By that I mean you most CERTAINLY have Christians that are violent---its just been many 100's of years since Christains have waged war from a relgious standpoint.

With relgion being the "driver" so to speak of the fighting.

The Tamul Tigers however come to mind as an exception.
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:16 pm

But the potential of violence is there for any religion.

yes even buddhism.

Hell there are actually groups of buddhists that would literally kill people of other religions.
Christians in particular because of colonial reasons.

Does that make buddhism violent by nature?

No it doesn't.


Just trying to make a point that any belief can be twisted for ##### up means.



If religion did not exist and we are all athiests/agnostic...

Demogauges like Fascism, communism, Anarchists could all be twisted up as well, and have been in place of religion.
Last edited by AAAhmed46 on Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tao_in_the_Mountians » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:19 pm

I am just wondering why Muslims take to the streets in route because of a silly political cartoon, while Christians are subject to watching there religion being made fun of on primetime sitcoms.

I don't see any problem with anything the pope may say, while in the other hand you have some (not all) Muslim leaders saying that "[Their] time marks the end of the Jews." ( I am still looking for the link for this video and will post when I do).


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Postby cxt » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:24 pm

AAAhmed

Your absolutely right.

Its not the relgion really, its what people do with it. :(

If we were all atheists, I sadly sure that we would find some other reasons to kill one another.
Last edited by cxt on Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:25 pm

Tao_in_the_Mountians wrote:I am just wondering why Muslims take to the streets in route because of a silly political cartoon, while Christians are subject to watching there religion being made fun of on primetime sitcoms.

I don't see any problem with anything the pope may say, while in the other hand you have some (not all) Muslim leaders saying that "[Their] time marks the end of the Jews." ( I am still looking for the link for this video and will post when I do).


Amos from Banff


Are you talking in Syria the riots?

You realize that you could not even form plans for such a thing in syria without getting shot?

In Serbia, goons were pain by the government to start riots that sparked this stuff to go on.

In pakistan, when it used to be a democracy; it was common for rival political parties to hire goons to smash things and make noise and riot.





And lets face it, Christians countries aren't being invaded, so i think they are alot less sensitive to this crap.

Before 9/11 islam was made fun off too.

Hell remember south parks ''super-friends'' episode with mohammed? Pre-911.

9/11 has made people sensitive.



I don't see any problem with anything the pope may say, while in the other hand you have some (not all) Muslim leaders saying that "[Their] time marks the end of the Jews." ( I am still looking for the link for this video and will post when I do).


Tell me how many muslim leaders actually teach this in a democratic country? Pretty rare.

In india once a muslim girl got raped.

All the mosques across india ruled that the man who raped her must be punished....but ONE mosque who's imam somehow said it was her fault.

What did the newspapers write? Well they failed to mention that it was a single religious opinion in a sea of major opposition from every other mosque, the article made it seem like the opposite.
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Postby IJ » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:46 pm

No, the hardcore conservative christians are not the Taliban. They're not as far on the fanatical or violent scale. So while there would be a grain of truth in there, it would be hyperbole to call them the Taliban. In other words, what I said:

"It's hyperbole with a grain of truth that some get called Christian Taliban."

People made up this extreme label to draw attention to some of the severe craziness, which is far from common among christians, but does occur. Who do you think HAS advocated executing gays in the USA, for example? Who do you think executed those abortionists, or bombed or incinerated their clinics? They are definitely some out there people, out there somewhere.
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Postby mhosea » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:56 am

AAAhmed46 wrote:They almost always hate islam more then any other religion
[snip]


Well, that may be true, but hating Islam (primarily for its anti-proselytizing laws) is not the same thing as hating Muslims. What evangelicals really want is to convert Muslims to Christianity, and over the years many of them have been willing to brave the anti-proselytizing laws in the attempt, although most have settled for running charities in compliance with legal constraints. As I read your comments, I think perhaps this nuance has been a little lost on you. They are angry in a secular, patriotic sense way over 9/11 and continued terrorist threats, but as evangelical Christians they consider Islam an abstract threat and Muslims, rather, as people in need of proselytizing. You may find this offensive in a way, but it is quite a different thing from hate.
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:27 am

I do believe that many DO hate, considering the sheer number of forum arguements i have had.


HOWEVER, if there is one thing i am learning from your posts, it is that there is far more of a mosiac of differeing opinions within Evangelical christianity then i first believed.


They are not bad people, i will agree with that. They are also non-violent, which is what i will also agree upon.
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Postby mhosea » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:58 am

AAAhmed46 wrote:I do believe that many DO hate, considering the sheer number of forum arguements i have had.


And of course you are right about that. It's hard to say anything interesting about a large group of people without up to 20% or more being an exception.
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Postby Panther » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:29 pm

Certain debates, mainly politics and religion, have a strong tendency to degenerate into "my God can kick your God's butt" positions.

First, let's keep this one from going there.

Second, I think we can all agree that there is evil in this world. It doesn't matter what religion, political position, belief system, or lack thereof these people hijack, they are evil. Unfortunately, there are too many who spend their time, money and energy in spreading their hatred to others who are easily swayed by such arguments, finger pointing and blame games. That goes for the Taliban/Al Queida, the KKK, the NeoNazi's, and others equally. It isn't fair to point an accusing finger at a Palestinian bomber while ignoring the fact that Menachim Begin used the same tactics before he became a "legitimized" leader.

Therefore, I would hope that we can all agree that regardless of your religion or politics, it isn't a sin to want to destroy evil.

Take care...
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Postby Stryke » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:58 pm

Can we agree politics is the real problem and often religion is just the tool ?


can politics and religion be seperate ?

I say we vote Kinky Friedman for president !!!

http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/

and for your listening pleasure

http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/kinkyf95-11.m3u
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:00 am

Stryke wrote:Can we agree politics is the real problem and often religion is just the tool ?


can politics and religion be seperate ?

I say we vote Kinky Friedman for president !!!

http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/

and for your listening pleasure

http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/kinkyf95-11.m3u






I cant load that up.


Can you summarize what his main points are?
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