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 Post subject: Saladin
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2422
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
We know, or rather the West began to hear of Salah Ed Din during the time of the Third Crusade.

It was the Crusade, as it happens, out of which the Tales of Robin Hood grow insofar when the Holy roman Emporer Henry VI, imprisoned Richard I while he was on his way back to his lands in France.

I am never quite clear what the actual desstination may have been at the time.

In any event Richard spent precious little time in England and was Killed in a small battle in France.

Both Richard's darkest hour and his greatest involved Saladin.

Richard, upon hearing that Acre, then the primary 'latin' city in the Outremer was about to fall turned his ships around (i am sorry, I am unaware of their original destination) and was throught the surf near Acre to retake the city before Slahdin's grip thereon wass eveen lightly established.

Strategically, AAcre was the foremost City of the Latin Kingdom called Outremer. Spiritually---weell I do not know.

It has been said that Richard (Malik Ric)virtually retook the city by himself.

During the subsequent reoccupation came Richard's darkest hour. He ordeerred the prisoner/hostages taken at Acre massacred.

I do nmot reecall why, but it seems, still, very unlike "Malik Ric" and 5000 prisoners died.

It goes without saying that this outraged Saladin. (Salah a Din Yussuf ibn Ayyub)

Saladin was Sunni. It has been said both that he was Turkish and that he was Kurdish.

He had made himself Sultan of Egypt upon the retating of TCairo in an unusual manner, allowing the "Frankish" defendders of Cairo safe passage, but capturing his Islamic enemies in Cairo.

I will be as brief as possible and hope for the time and interest to research Saladin, Richard and the IIIrd Crusade a bit more.

Jerusalem had fallen to the Norman led (Bohemund, Godfrey de Boulion and Tancred the Great to name some frrom memory).

Norman holdings in Europe were rather extensive at the time.

Jerusalem fell to the Norman led army in 1099.

Much is made of the fact that all the inhabitants of the City at the time well killed.

However, I am compelled to say that 'letting the troops loose' on a city that had resisted was somewhat customary and the custom continued into the 18th century.

The leaders of the Crusade where there partially out of a true christian zeal (if that can be reconciled with the massacre, which I suppose it was) and LAND . the rank and file were ther partially out of zeal and for LOOT.

It was, after all, an accepted way of getting the troops paid. In fact it may have been the only way the rank and file could have been satisfied.

Saladin retook Jerusalem in 1187 but allowed the potential victims and allowing them to leave unmolested for other Latin holdings in Outremer.

If I were tto be cynical, I might say that Saladin was not short of cash and his soldiers not enraged after a prolonged siege.

This sparked the Third Crusade led by Richard, Frederick 'Barbarossa', the Holy Roman Emporer ,Phillip (II?) of france, and the aforementioned conrad of Monseratt.

The Emporer was of Germano Norman descent who had major holdings in Sicily as well as in Germany.

The Battle of the Horns of Hattin was a near fatal blow to the Crusader (which I call Latin)State in the Holy Land. Prisoners from the Battle, which caused the Fall of Jerusalem, were not as fortunate as the defenders and inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Saladin continued his 'counter crusade' into the Christian lands of Syria. I believe a signficant part of Syria had been christian before the 1st and only truly effective Crusade.

Soon after, Saladin died.

I hope others will contribute to this thread and properly flesh out the details of the life of this remarkable, and perhaps ruthless man. It seems clear he sometimes treated his Islamic enemies rather more harshly than the Christians in the Holy Land.

jt

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"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"


Last edited by JOHN THURSTON on Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:10 am 
Quote:
I hope others will contribute to this thread and properly flesh out the details of the life of this remarkable, and perhaps ruthless man. It seems clear he treated his Islamic enemies rather more harshly than the Christins in the Holy Land. Wes notes this rather well in his post.


John-

I would greatly appreciate it if you would not assign things to me of this nature. I merely pointed out that his unification of Muslim armies was not always peaceful. Based on some of your posts - I was hesitant to even post on this forum. Now that I have, I would really appreciate you leaving me out of any and all assumptions and other politically motivated (you reference me in a post about Holocaust deniers) posts that are not in direct relation to what I have posted. I'm not able to discern what your personal bias' are and your motivations regarding some of your posts on the Middle East, Islam, etc. But I'd rather speak for myself on the subject - where I may (if I can hazard a guess...) fall on the other side of the fence than most. Thank you.

-wes tasker


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 Post subject: Apologies
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2422
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Sorry Wes. didn't mean to misrepresent your position. The use of your name in the "post your favorite quotes here" was meant to encourage your contribution by drawing your attention to a matter.

Your comments and corrections are always welcome and I will refrain frrom misquoting you in future.

It upsets me when I misuse a contributor's words and I have deleted the offending sentence. I would never do so with an intention to hurt or attack you in any way.

My present position on the "Problem of the Israeli State" is that I am somewhat of an arabophile, but not to the point of wishing another holocaust or even a serious defeat of the IDF.

I will not assume what your position is, but I would like to hear it. i think your insights would be of immense help.

Although I post "Current Events" matters, the basic mission of the forum is to follow the growth of western military and martial arts from inception (in this case about 1479 BC) to the present.

John

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 Post subject: Saladin's
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2422
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Isi it appropriate to ask you to speak of Saladin, and his armies, weapons and tactics.

The Book I have Is on Renaissance Sworsdsmanship-but it is tough learn something from a book when you have not had anyy traing one on one.

As to the rest, er, as an example-i approach the other forums somewhat gingerly.

Van And Bill and GEM know more about uechi than I can ever hope to learn.

I must say that I think the posts on criticizing the forum (not started by you) were not approached in this fasshion. On the other side of the coin, I do not like to talked 'down' to any more than you would.

having said that, although Dale and You and I got of to to a Rocky start, Dale might consider his own motto--and goodness knows you could kick the k--- out of me, but what would be the point of that.

i just hope you both contribute.

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"All Enlightenment Gratefully Accepted"


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