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 Post subject: Misrepresentation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:47 pm 
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Knowing that every teacher is under the gun and can be sued for misrepresenting what they teach, IUKF makes a point out of separating the "art" of Uechi-ryu from the highly specialized areas of methods, use of force and other areas involving "reality" applications.

In the past we were able to blissfully teach and make "general" promises of being "better" prepared with our training than without it.

Since no one - no where - can make any guarantees, I still believe this statement is accurate. However, IUKF believes that students should be offered options in their training that enables any of them who are looking for specialized training or simply a better chance of faring well in a fight, opportunities to get that training as a complimentary extension of their "core" Uechi program.

Now if this is "delusional", then I guess I'm guilty. In the meantime, if anyone believes they are less delusional because of how they advertise what they teach, please share this wisdom with the rest of us.

By the way, the correct quote is: "IUKF teaches Uechi-ryu as an art that happens to use self-defense movements."

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Last edited by gmattson on Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:44 pm 
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Van, besides the 3 of us who have spoken we have done everything short of using a whip and even then I feel some may still not understand......BUT I AM HOPEFUL!


Since a jury is usually made of people who may or may not have the same education, intelligence, upbringing, life experiences, any self defense experience, or even have played a contact sport...I have found that definitions in regards to court are based on a few things;

1. Dictionary - what does it mean in the book?
2. Common phrase acceptance - Have others used or have heard of the word meaning this or that?
3. Society Acceptance; meaning is this a practiced norm for others.
4. Movies or entertainment - has this been used in a movie and if so how?
5. Upbringing or culture views - have they grown up believing it had this meaning etc...

Just a few things to add to this topic....

Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:45 pm 
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All over the world karate is defined and sold as a martial art, and as such it will be seen as a tool of violence, to be used in defensive engagements calling for ‘reality applications’ _

Thus the argument that we are advancing with Dave’s program to safeguard the physical, emotional, legal and financial well being of traditional karate practitioners with his certification of ‘judicious applications’ under reality conditions.

This is akin to what the Lethal Force Institute does with its certification_ it takes the guesswork and delusions of the average person licensed to carry formidable tools [guns] out of potential force on force engagements_ the realities of life.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
Dave,

If you look at the forums_ you will see sanchin and kumite threads running into the thousands views and 'out of the woodwork' posters.


Then something as important as your thread that has been advertised by george on all forums, just get a measley couple of hundred views, and that's after all my fracas in order to get the ball rolling.

Next thing we are going to hear is that it is all my fault. :popcorn:



Van....


Some people get it, some people never will, and for some.....well there is always hope!

At times I have found that people say that want reality as long as it paints the picture they want to live in.....But I enjoy our conversations.....lol and all of George's support....

As for me...I am still here and NOT going anywhere and will continue trying!.......

Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:34 am 
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Quote:
Lets continue to discuss Dave's programs and where they fit in dojo.


Does this kind of training really fit into the dojo, or should it be pursued as something beyond the training that happens in the dojo? Something that I have noticed when training more "real world" situations and techniques in a dojo is that karate folks try hard to bring the new material into their core art, instead of expanding out from the core into the new material. Instead of "all is in Sanchin", maybe "I see Sanchin in other things".

I'm not sure I'm being clear with what I'm trying to get across. :oops:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:43 am 
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Does this kind of training really fit into the dojo, or should it be pursued as something beyond the training that happens in the dojo? Something that I have noticed when training more "real world" situations and techniques in a dojo is that karate folks try hard to bring the new material into their core art, instead of expanding out from the core into the new material.


depends on the dojo , I`m contemplating investing in some suits in the future as theyed play a key component for some of the work I`d like to address .

I understand your comment I think Mike , but I think it matters little , it depends in my opinion on wether there trying to expand and explore mechanics(I find it difficult concepts wouldnt overlap) or trying to force new material into a poor mould .

bad teaching and learning wil always be just that . Thats no excuse not to do/explore the material .

it`s about objectives , if you want to better martially you`ve got to explore violence .

my 2 cents

In my experience the folks who say more stuff confuses students , well there usually the ones with crappy students . But of course just my experience .


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 Post subject: MikeK
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:20 am 
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MikeK wrote:
Quote:
Lets continue to discuss Dave's programs and where they fit in dojo.


Quote:
Does this kind of training really fit into the dojo, or should it be pursued as something beyond the training that happens in the dojo?




MikeK,

Yes absolutely it not only fits into the dojo setting but expands on the teachings....many pursue it in addition to their own training to help build a better program for themselves and other students, some pursue this training as a stand alone due to their limited personal time, some pursue this training to fine tune their own art and surival skills.

I feel the training we are presenting will greatly enhance any instructor, expand any Dojo and supports any style...

I hope that answered you question MikeK

Thanks

Dave


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:23 am 
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Marcus
Quote:
it`s about objectives , if you want to better martially you`ve got to explore violence .


All here in a nutshell, Marcus, thank you.

As Dave explains it_ think of it as ingraining the missing survival concepts that are non existent in the average TMA classes. Again not so much ‘technique wise’ but ‘consequence wise’ in more ways than any of us can imagine.

Think of it. We practice Uechi, a great system, with killer techniques that can be developed by in depth study. But what do we really learn about ‘real street violence’ other than imagined response action?

Violence is a multi-dimensional beast hard to fathom by the best of us. Many refuse to address the potential unintended consequences for themselves or others _once in the thought of calling upon defensive moves_ convinced that their dojo kata/kumite/bunkai is all they need, because they trained the ‘real Uechi’ as opposed to others who did not get baptized by the top masters.

They/us can be very effective in some ways, and fall on our faces in so many more for lack of tactical knowledge in the ways we will be really tested in the world.

The majority of us will get annoyed and defensive just by reading some of the confrontation dynamics I have presented in my forum for the last ten years with the help and collaboration of very good people who were vilified.

So these people will continue with the ‘not necessary’ mantra _ as evidenced by the avoidance of this forum and thread.

Example_ if I polled the readers, I bet fewer than 10% have purchased an umbrella liability policy to cover them in case they are sued should they ever use their karate for self defense, or the pepper spray, or their beloved handgun, on the street.

That is if they are still in one piece.
:(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:30 am 
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Dave,

And again, it would be helpful if you posted what the program will be like, what each participant will need to do, physically and classroom wise, in order to be certified.

And the cost of the program in addition to travel and hotel expenses.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:48 am 
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If I had the money and the ability to take off from work, I would be at this program in an instant. Also I would be at summer camp. If I could, I would be at every program ever mentioned on Van's forum. :lol:

Not only would I learn a whole lot, but I know that I would have a whole lot of fun. :lol:

But then again, I never saw the word "karate" as some kind of box that I had to stay in, but rather as a powerful tool that I could use to continue to grow in understanding and experience. :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:45 am 
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But maybe that's just the influence of my teacher, who taught me the dreaded TMA. :lol:


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 Post subject: The "Fit". . .
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:06 pm 
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Quote:
Lets continue to discuss Dave's programs and where they fit in dojo.


Here is my take on the subject:

The realistic training (such as Dave's) must fit into the dojo program, otherwise the programs would be conflicting in the applications used.

We have been very fortunate in that all of the "outside" instructors who have come to our camp, use techniques right out of the Uechi kata and applications. This might just be a coincidence or more probably the fact that "what works" just happens to be moves we have been practicing in our kata, drills and other applications.

Now if the "realist" instructors used foreign techniques, unfamiliar and unpracticed by our people, I would think the programs would be conflicting or minimally, less productive.

In my estimation, the strength of "compatible" programs, such as the one Dave teaches, is working on things outside the comfortable and familiar settings of the dojo. . . using strenuous and stressful situations that add a new level of realism to what we practice on a regular basis.

If Dave taught in a manner that was designed to "replace" the dojo program or the sensei, then obviously it wouldn't be something many Uechi teachers would approve.

Simply stated, Dave's program is a win-win opportunity that our dojo should be very actively pursuing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Now if the "realist" instructors used foreign techniques, unfamiliar and unpracticed by our people, I would think the programs would be conflicting or minimally, less productive.

In my estimation, the strength of "compatible" programs, such as the one Dave teaches, is working on things outside the comfortable and familiar settings of the dojo. . . using strenuous and stressful situations that add a new level of realism to what we practice on a regular basis.


And that is excellent.

More to the point_ the value of what he teaches and certifies you with, is not really in 'technique' but in the tactical_ judicious applications of what we think we know.

In or out of the box_ we must remember it will have to be sold to police, judge, jury _ both in criminal and civil actions.

But 'technique wise' has the value of Dave pointing out the 'folly' of using stuff we think we know in TMA that ill get us killed.

Just as LFI will teach the average gun toter that what he thinks he knows after taking a 'safety course' is nothing but a ticket to the pine box in the real world of violence.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:33 pm 
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So what will you have to do physically, mentally and absorb for a written test at the end to earn certification?

And what is the projected cost for , say, someone wanting to attend from the East Coast, including projected travel and hotel expenses?

This must be outlined so people can start thinking about it.

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 Post subject: Reply on Program
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:15 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
Dave,

And again, it would be helpful if you posted what the program will be like, what each participant will need to do, physically and classroom wise, in order to be certified.

And the cost of the program in addition to travel and hotel expenses.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Van...Expenses will vary depending on the location the person is traveling from.

Hotels range from $40-80 dollars per day, always helps if you have memberships to clubs like AAA, government etc...

Cost of each phase is $395.00
For the first program we said we would give a two for one to help with personal expenses...

This will include your manual, handouts, and the disc of what we did in the class. In addition you will be able to purchase the e-book on the program and the RedMan Training gear....[u]YOU will not be able to purchase this manual, handouts, disc, or e-book without attending the class[b]
This is a re-post from what I wrote in the letter on the program;

It is 5 complete phases of 3 10 hour days. We can do it all in 2 complete weeks, but I have listened to others about how hard it is to get off from work in a week, and it does come down to what you truly want to achieve.


2. Purpose: To explain how the integration of reality based training will enhance the traditional programs found in martial art schools and will increase the retention of students within these schools. Once the student has completed this first phase of training in the “Reality Training Series,” (RTS-1) they will be certified to and train their own students in the school they operate in these techniques and tactics.

3. Training Options;
a. The student has the option to either participate exclusively with the traditional training and certifications without the reality stripes for performance;

b. The student has the option to either participate exclusively with the Reality Stripes training and certifications without the traditional training;

c. The student has the option to either to sign up for both the traditional training and”reality” training at the beginning of his/her training.

4. Reality Ranks: Preparing them for the real world. Instructor has the option to sign student up for the entire “reality” program, as an added incentive and “real world” benefit that included an ongoing advanced degree certificate diploma.

5. Reality Stripe: – This is a stripe worn after the student has successfully completed each traditional task, preparing them for the real word. And now has a choice to either sign a contract for traditional Uechi-Ryu or Reality Training for their Reality Stripe.

Continuous Education and Certifications; Before the “Reality Training”, begins each student will be signed up for an official college course by the DOJO Owner from Northcentral Technical College, and once completing each training phase will receive a certification of completion from NTC-RedMan Training moving them closer to the Advanced Degree Certificate Diploma for “Personal Self Defense.” Issued by Northcentral Technical College. The student must satisfactorily complete all tasks in accordance with the training and standards division of NTC-RedMan Training. [i]This is the only college accredited personal defense course of it's kind offered in the United States today!



Belt Task Break Down:

(RTS-1) /White Belt or Equivalent Real World Stripe; - Once the traditional training has been completed the student will be trained in;
1. Stance/Balance/Movement (Standing)
2. Falling by self
3. Positioning (Defense Positions)
4. Blocking & Striking (Standing)
5. Tactical Combinations
6. Ground Stabilization
7. Importance of verbalization
8. Environmental Training

This initial portion will focus on the preparation for a physical encounter to preare the sudent as well as the liability issues to the trainer and dojo itself, enhanced indivudal instructor development, and the proper use of the RedMan Training Gear and equipment, and continue to build on each phase in level of intensity and dynamics.....


(RTS-2) /Green Belt or Equivalent Real World Stripe: - Once the traditional training has been completed the student will be trained in;
9. Stance/Balance/Movement (Ground)
10. Falling with Subject
11. Power Development for Striking (Standing – Ground)
12. Relative Levels of Positioning of a Subject
13. Blocking & Striking (Ground)
14. Ground Escapes and Rest Positions
15. Throws and Flips
16. Importance of Testifying in Court

(RTS-3) /Brown Belt or Equivalent Real World Stripe: - Once the traditional training has been completed the student will be trained in;
17. Conducting Low Level Simulations with RedMan bags
18. Conducting High Level Simulations with RedMan Gear
19. Importance of Safety Coaches in Training
20. Falling with Weapons (Sticks, Knives , Guns)
21. Positioning with Weapons (Defense Positions)
22. Blocking & Striking with Weapons (Standing- Ground)
23. Tactical Combinations with Weapons
24. Knife Fighting and Defending
25. Preparing written statements for Police

(RTS-4) /Black Belt or Equivalent Real World Stripe;-Once the traditional training has been completed the student will be trained in;
26. Supervising Low Level Simulations with bags
27. Supervising High Level Simulations with RedMan Gear
28. Training Safety Coaches for liability Training
29. Using Functional Training Weapons and other props
30. Use of Protective Gear in Training
31. Establishing goals and objectives for conducting simulations
32. 8-levels of Simulations Training
33. Role Playing and Safety Supervision
34. Writing lesson plans and directives
(RTS-5) /2nd Degree Black Belt or Equivalent Real World Stripe;- Once the traditional training has been completed the student will be trained in;
35. Certifying your instructors in Low Level Simulations with bags
36. Certifying your instructors High Level Simulations with RedMan Gear
37. Certifying your instructors as Safety Coaches for liability Training
38. Certifying your instructors your instructors to use Functional Training Weapons and other props
39. Certifying your instructors in the use of RedMan Protective Gear in Training
40. Completing the Real World Instructor Certification

Above is just an example of how to bring in and introduce this new training which I feel will help motivate new students, retain currents students, and continue to refresh instructors in help maintain a successfully business. After each phase of training the student may purchase the e-books and other training material for their own training.

E-Books will be available ONLY for certified RTS Instructor. Each training series will have e-books and videos to help each instructor present the most accurate and up to date training available.

After all 5 phases of training have been complete the certified Instructor will have the opportunity to present and certify other instructors in this system and will have the opportunity to teach other NTC-RedMan Training Programs;

1. Woman Awareness Survival Program (WASP™)
2. Self Defense Weapon Systems
3. Personal Self Defense (PSD™)
4. Young Warriors Program (13-17 ages)
5. SABRE Civilian Instructor Certification

Above is just a basic outline of how this “Reality Training Series), will be integrated into existing styles and systems.

This is just the beginning of courses they will be able to teach because we also have a civilian firearms program, and edged weapons programs but again if you do not go through this training in the order we have out line then the person will not be able to particpate, or have access to hte material and liability protection we are offering.

I hope this helped some.

Thanks again Vam.

Dave


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