Kick in the groin

[Bruise* Lee]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Njxuc3M0oTQ

The above should be a link to youtube. I found a pretty good Japanese TV video about a guy named Genki Sudo, he is a K1 fighter - I watched a video of him beating Royler Gracie and some other guys. Anyway he is at the dojo of my old instructor (Rod Sacharnoski) and gives a Juko Ryu student some good shots. It seems that Genki as a NHB, MMA fighter would possibly have a lower tolerance for BS - so it would seem to follow if there was trickery afoot (pardon the pun) as Bill has stated, with the kick to the groin he would have said something - and as I have aptly pointed out in response to his run of the mill arguments that is is trickery - even if you could hide your genitals somewhere else, taking a kick to the perineum, or pubic bone is no mean feat. Sometimes with less skilled kickers the blow might land of course on the inner thigh (which can really smart) or sometimes the buttocks can absorb some ipact of a poorly aimed kick - but this guy seems to be a good kicker. One of the 3 videos they have shows a Dallas Cowboy football lineman landing an open handed strike to the groin - definately then, if there is some trickery he would know it - even though you can gtell with your foot if you hit junk or not.

I also found a short Jujutsu clip from someone in Juko Kai (I think i searched Juko Kai jujutsu) which is pretty typical of some of the Jujutsu fighting art taught.

Again taking the strikes is not the entirety of Juko Kai, its just that those involved in it feel being able to take a good strike is important to self defense, and even though it is pretty certin Rod Sacharnoski inflated his credentials - the guy could still get it on. SO mostly I throw this out to stir Bill up a bit

[Bill Glasheen]

Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear.

- Dinah Mulock Craik


PT Barnum has nothing on these folks...

- Bill

[Stryke]

deleted

[AAAhmed46]

Genki Sudo defies the laws of physics by sheer will power.

[Bill Glasheen]

I'm happy for these guys that they can give a great "karate demo" and attract some attention to what they do.

But...

Been there, done that. I had the opportunity to do one of these groin kick demos at the halftime of an ACC basketball game with a full audience. My partner, Bryan Burke, was instructed to lift me off the ground with his kick - and he did. You want reaction? Imagine over 7000 people simultaneously groaning with empathy.

Tomoyose Sensei has done myriad throat attack demos in his day.

Kicks to the ribs?

To me, it's a distraction. It may get people to sign up and you might entertain with it. But IMHO it takes away from what martial arts is about, and gives people the wrong impression. Furthermore, it adds to the whole chi-ster mistique. After my halftime demo, I had rival martial arts instructors telling students in their classes about how I was controlling my ki. What-ever...

You don't have to go far to find links to NCAA articles on sports injuries where athletes in their prime get real injuries to these body parts. It's no laughing matter when a young man loses a testicle from a sports injury. It's very, very rare, but it happens. Thankfully most of us survive our testicles being whacked, and usually we live to talk about it. But there is a reason why nature innervated those organs. Think about it...

A great demo is a great demo.

And then we get on to doing martial arts. IMHO...

- Bill

[AAAhmed46]

Kicks to the ribs?


- Bill

Depends on who's kicking...

[Bill Glasheen]

Indeed!



Not all hits are created equal. That's why it's best to get out of the way when possible.

I'm particularly allergic to strikes that come with a blade on the end of them. One never knows sometimes until it's too late.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

I'm particularly allergic to strikes that come with a blade on the end of them. One never knows sometimes until it's too late.

You mean the sudden blade upon the fingers of ready kamae position?




Sorry could not resist the temptation.

[Stryke]

Depends on who's kicking...

aint it the truth , same with those prearranged kumites !!!!

[Bill Glasheen]

Van

That's OK; Let's call it like we see it.

I don't get all defensive about my style when people ridicule a textbook Uechi "ready kamae" posture against a blade. What is it that the women say? It ain't the meat; it's the motion. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Uechi style. What's wrong is interpretation and execution.

We get Raffi down here every year. (He's coming March 17, BTW. ) Raffi - as you know - is a rokudan Uechika and guro with the Filipino knife. In a New York second he'll tell you not to stand in Uechi "ready kamae" when facing a blade.

But when I see his posture, I don't see a Uechi problem per se. His "ready position" with the knife (while holding a knife) is nothing more than someone taking the Uechi tea and putting it in the Filipino tea cup. You put the blade out, and pull the other hand in closer to the chest. No biggie in my book.

I was able to see these minor adjustments when going back and forth between my Uechi Ryu and my Shorei Kai Goju Ryu. I often said that there was a period of time where I learned more about my Uechi from Goju than I learned within the Uechi system. (Shorei Kai Goju has more yakusoku and bunkai kumite than any system I know of.)

Working with people who insist on literal interpretations of kata can be like working with religious people who insist on odd, literal interpretations of their dogma. It becomes both religion and dogma for them, and they end up not being able to do squat with what they have. Meanwhile, the "That's not Uechi!" crowd is left in the dust as we cross-trainers and application freaks go about our fun.

As was often preached to me by more than a few Okinawan masters, "Kata is kata; application is application."

Along those lines... I've been making myriad minor modifications of our classroom Seisan bunkai as I have been working with a group of older brown belts. And with your "kamae" issue being brought up, the sword attack for the front elbow with leaning front stance is a prime example. Apparently some of the people who do these bunkai have never done any weapon kata or weapon bunkai. Kote is one of the classic, allowed techniques in kendo - the sport of Japanese swordplay. All it takes is a little tap...

I constantly comment to my class about a scene from Kirasawa's Seven Samurai when the farmers first come to town. It happens so fast that most people don't see it. In the scene, a dog trots across with what appears to be a bone in his jaws, ready either to bury or munch on it. The first instinct is 'Awww, how cute!' Closer examination reveals that the "bone" ain't no bone...

It ain't the system; it's the way you use it.

- Bill

[tigereye]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Njxuc3M0oTQ

This is really something but cannot be healthy to do as a regular daily exercise.


It's not only in Martial Arts,but also in football boys make big effort to protect the groin.
A man's testicles are very susceptible to pain. A strong kick to his groin will disable any man. There for teaching
self-defense for women the front kick to the groin as an extremely effective tool.
The man who get kicks to the groin are usually not enjoying it.
Hard to believe that this man have no pain.
The real painful moment will come when the man will be diagnosed with testicular cancer.
Look at this clip and please tell me why then this guy collapsing from the pain? He looks well trained just as the other one on the clip of Bruise* Lee.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ate+videos

[Bill Glasheen]

Eva

That video clip is "staged." The woman never meant to kick the stick out of the guy's mouth. Note how she measures the kick very slowly with the left leg, and then kicks in the groin with the right. It was no accident, and the "victim" was in on the whole joke.

This was more than likely meant to be a bit of karate demonstration humor. Whenever people take these "karate magic shows" too seriously, we have problems. It's no wonder that people appreciate the emergence of the mixed martial arts format where there is at least a little bit of reality to what "might" happen in a real fight.

In this case, the self-deprecating humor was right on the money!

More than likely, the "victim" had proper groin protection on. I count on my students having such protection on when I demonstrate certain techniques. For example I will often "rap" the groin target with my hiraken knuckle when demonstrating the Seisan bunkai for the "groin strikes." My point is to show how reliably you can find the target once someone has touched you even if you can't see it. It becomes a matter of years of experience where good technique and awareness after contact can tell you where and how to hit without you even looking. In any case, the "knock" that my hiraken fist makes on the groin cup makes the point - without hurting my student.

I agree with you, Eva, that we shouldn't discount the groin as a valid and perfect target. However it's also worth mentioning that it won't always work. Groin attacks depend upon pain to work, and they weren't really meant as finishing techniques. It will work 90% of the time or more if you hit the testicles. However any technique that works strictly on pain may fail you when dealing with either an extremely determined opponent or someone who is drugged. It might be poetic justice if you kick a bad guy in the groin and his testicles swell up to the size of tennis balls the next day. However what you really want to do is to stop the person right now. That usually works, but not always when pain is involved.

We should never invest ourselves 100% in any technique. If something doesn't work, you try something else without hesitation or interruption. If you come across an opponent who seems resistant to pain, then the best thing to do is use techniques which destroy their control of their center. Those techniques will not fail you when the opponent is drugged or can ignore pain.

- Bill

[tigereye]

We should never invest ourselves 100% in any technique.

I agree with you Bill,that
the more techniques we learn is better. They may come in handy someday.

Actually I find
front kick very useful as a self-defense technique.Leg, is more powerful weapon than the arm and because legs are longer than arms kicks tend to keep an opponent at a distance.
Because in most situations the attacker standing in front of you the standard front kick is enough to slow him down...
The groin grab can be used only if the attacker is close enough.
To be effective using this technique you must get a hold of at least one
testicle. It’s the squashing of the testicles that cause the pain.
I guess without experience better not to try this technique.

If something doesn't work, you try something else without hesitation or interruption.
If you come across an opponent who seems resistant to pain, then the best thing to do is use techniques which destroy their control of their center. Those techniques will not fail you when the opponent is drugged or can ignore pain.

This means to work on speed, accuracy, and be thinking about timing, and surprise.
And disable the attacker by damage a leg, knee, so he can’t stand, can’t walk, can’t run, and therefore can’t hurt you.
Demobilize long enough to be able to get away.
Right?

[Bill Glasheen]

It’s the squashing of the testicles that cause the pain.
I guess without experience better not to try this technique.

This comes under the category of "organ attacks." It's the same level of vicousness as an eye gouge.

You can practice both these techniques using various props. In Grossman's book On Killing, he talks about methods used to practice an eye gouge. The props can be purchased at any grocery store.

One of my firearm instructors had to do an eye gouge once in a real life encounter. He was transporting a prisoner from one place to the next, and the prisoner attacked him. My instructor simply stuck a thumb (?) in the fellow's eye and destroyed his eyeball. It helped him get the prisoner back under control - to say the least.

The real question about a technique like this Eva isn't whether or not it can be done. It doesn't take that much force or technique to crush a testicle or destroy an eyeball. The real question is if you have the intestinal fortitude to do something like this if you really needed to. Not everyone can. Much has been written about this.

For what it's worth, I've had a few female students who would have absolutely NO problem crushing the testicle of a rapist. Not every woman can, but some could do it without a second thought.

This means to work on speed, accuracy, and be thinking about timing, and surprise.
And disable the attacker by damage a leg, knee, so he can’t stand, can’t walk, can’t run, and therefore can’t hurt you.

Actually this isn't necessary, Eva. There are many places on the body where you can attack where you break someone's center or shut down a technique without doing permanent harm to the body. Attacking the fold of any joint will trigger a muscle reflex. The front fold of the hip or the back fold of the knee are perfect targets for the sokuto geri. If all you want to do is temporarily destroy someone's balance, these work very well. If you want to do more (permanent) harm or do a blood choke, they become great set-up techniques.

And again, these kinds of techniques work regardless of whether or not someone is immune to pain from mindset or drug abuse. That's important to know.

- Bill

[Bruise* Lee]

I have not had a chance to return since posting this - too darn busy, and toomuch in a hurry to read replies - hoped you liked it. That Genki SUdo really looks like he is good - watched a few other videos of him grapppling etc - he knows how to front kick, leans back and gets his hip into it. Some people who don't know how to front kick tend to sty upright or even lean forward clumsily