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 Post subject: AGINCOURT
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:01 am
Posts: 1676
Location: england
Hi John ,

My first post on your forum ,last year I read the book on Agincourt by Juliet Barker . I had seen it a few times in Doncaster at W.H Smiths ,it seemed interesting ,so eventually I purchased it .

Its split into three sections; THE KING > THE CAMPAIGN > THE BATTLE.

In this landmark study of Agincourt, prize-winning author Juliet Barker draws upon a huge range of sources published and unpublished,English and French,to give a compelling account of a battle upon which so many legends have been built .but she also looks behind the action on the field to paint a portrait of the age .A mad King, murderous dukes,scheming bishops,knightly heroes ,surgeons ,heralds ,spies and pirates-the story of Agincourt has them all .

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:01 am
Posts: 1676
Location: england
Hi John ,

A few comments.

English thinking differed slightly in the use of the bow ,such as in the old saying " To keep it under ones hat" this actually ref; the old practice of the english archers who place their bow strings in a dry place ,on march ,in battle etc, under there helmet in case of two main possibilites ,rain and bow string breakage .
This practice did save the day in quite a few battles .

"At the battle of crecy in 1346 the Geonese crossbowmen found out to their cost that the pouring rain had soaked their bow strings , so that they 'could not stretch the cords to the bows so shrunken were they ...they could not shoot a single bolt '."

Max.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3551
Location: Valhalla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt
Had to look this one up.

So many battles along that Somme. From the English Bowman to the German Panzer tanks rumbling along it.

F.

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 Post subject: Agincourt
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2423
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Agincourt and Crecy were battles in which the English used the limited nimber of longbowmen they had.

I estimated the "pull" on such long bows as 75-one hundred pounds.

I can't pull my 60 after I reinjured my shoulder which I first hurt back in 1984.

The English used a copper compound called "verdigris graeco" ( a copper wash) to keep their arrows straight on campaign.

They would have faced the same problem in the rain as the Genose , but probably had many strings each and per all waxed cord.

I WIll check and post a map,






Image


.

The position in which the English found themselves is very similar to that in which Roman Imperial Governor Suetonius Paulinus found himself when he faced the Britons led by Boudicca.


Ie: Flank secures with the "rained on ground"and a slcight incline up wich to manuever put the French advance int eh hands of "General Goo" under a hail to mail piercing arrows.

Fulll Plate armor was not in use at this time, I will try and pick a picture os the Mixed mail and plate armor likely in use at the time.
'
I would like to get the book mentioned ASAP ant I thank yo for you post during the concurrent attcxk of FMS and writer's block.


J

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Last edited by JOHN THURSTON on Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: For Images's Sake
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2423
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
As I said, although it is not an enfoced rule, of course, I prefer to outfit my posts with Pics from my own library or other sourrces as I like to see my posts have a little instant "color" added to them.

Again, this is not a rule.

However, I have posted a picture of a German Armor fro about 20 years before Agincourt which fits my pysche/minds view of the Armor of the time and a Map of the second stage of the of the battle.

General Goo, Colonel rain and Henry V's dispositions based on terrain, knowledge of the enemy's armor and tactics seem to have been the contributing factors to the victory

Image

Image


Armor of the time for the mounted chivarly did not fully protect against the mail piercing arrows of the Englsh, and although full Plate armor would have afforded such proctection, it would have limited french mobility under the circumstances even further.

Still, some contend this type of armor was the best compomise of the mail surcoat, the "Pair of Plates" and the full plate armor of later dates.

Eventually, perhaps from cost reasons as mucn as mobility the complexity of "Battle armor" was much reduced by time the 17th century.

If you saw "A Knight's Tale" the Foot armor of "William" for his ground combats was quirkily close to that of the Armor of James II by Richard Hoden, which I may l post later.

This type of armor would have been typical of Cromwell's "new Model Army" and of the 17th century colonists in America,

Rmeber, In terms of loss of life based on percentage of Population, the prize goes to the Losses in "King Phillips War" in Massachusetts where 75% of the Conial population and native american population perished in the nasty little war. (see "the Mayflower" by by Nathanial Philbrick.

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