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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2438
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
I wonder why WE always have to go bigger newer and (supposedly) better.

Do you realize that, with the possible exception of the Styker AC, our troops rode in Baghdad on a mini tank (draws fire real good) amphib tracks and Viet nam era m113's.


We saw what a dominant and heavily armored APC the IDF made from the Centurion.

why should we be throwing away perfectly reusable chassis (M-60 and M48) when it has be shown that these type 'carriages" (and that's what GMC means folks, Gun Motor Carriage-no lie) that could be dominant,

The Bradley is too big and carries too few troops, but is a worthy vehicle in terms of fire power (TOW+25mm Chain gun).

In Vietnam our troop would not even ride inside one ot the M-113 "tracks" (aluminum armor, gotta stay amphibious don't ya know).

The Toga IDF of tje M113 and the APC transformation of the Centurion should be a lesson.

The Soviet BKP 40 should have been copied.

In 1944, Canadians rode inside turretless M-4 Shermans, as a stopgap, and it worked well.


J

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 Post subject: Some Info On M-60's Fate
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2438
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Brief but belated research on the fate of the M-60 Tanks roughly runs as follows:

-1700 of the Type are presently operated by the Egyptian Army

-700 of the Type are operated by the tukish army

-Approximately the same number (700) were in the hands of the IDF. In their survice the M-60's were superceded by the home grown "Merkava" (Chariot) Tank. Then 105mm sized gun, an effective tank destroyer in the Yom Kippur War (THE outstand antitank weapon, although, as a shock to the IDF, the soviet made "Sagger" wife guided missiles.

Turkey has upgraded some of their M-60's, I beleive, to carry a 120mm gun. I will try to find a Picture.

Many, sadly, have been "expended" as targets in the US.

I feel this is not a "mistake" as such, but the limited usefullness of the M-1A1's in "Urban combat" and the Usefullness of the well designed, armed, silent, and amored "Styker" Armored Cars (almost a light tank on wheels) does point to the possible need for more than just one "Tank Weight" in US services.

In reading several commentaries from gulf War I, it would appear that the M-60's fared well against the Iraqi operated Soviet T-72's.

It should be noted that this may have been due to better training abd, of course, the cross sharing of Information from the IDF in dealing with Soviet types.

The formidable "Centurion" Tank was upgraded from a 22lb gun (approximately 88mm) to the 105 MM (sorry I forget the exact 'type") Gun in British and israeli Service.

The Centurion had excellent 'grade climbing" and cross country performance.

What I am Suggesting is a Diesel Powered medium Tank Type for US service.

The Abrams is more than a bit of a gas guzzler. However, the British have been able to coax equivalent speed out of Perkins diesel equipped Heavy Tanks, notably Challenger I and II.

J

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