It`s about how you train , If you train with a realistic intent , and dont remove the martial intent , and address questions of real violence then your on track .
this Marine BS is BS , they are warriors , there will be many exceptional marines , this has as much to do with mindset and focus and force continuim as skillset . Theres also a reason they get experts in , fighting skills ....
The original post is an observation how they removed intent , and the martial , and standardised for the mass market , and public accpetance/need .
You get high dan ranks saying MA is really for excercise , and that your better off boxing , or if you want to mix it with something proficent like MMA you may have real fighting skills .
So whish is it ? , does karate need a specific focus to be effective , or is it effective as the martially removed version .
quote:
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Your better of going into a boxing club and just mixing it up
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George E Mattson on trying to make karate effective for self defence
The Priests of Mars. The minute you don a black belt, the minute you step in front of a class to teach, you are seen as an expert on violence.
It doesn’t matter if you have absorbed a complete philosophical system with your martial art. It doesn’t matter if the art gave you, for the first time, the confidence to view the world as a pacifist.
It doesn’t matter if you studied as a window to another age and culture. It doesn’t matter that you have found enlightenment in kata or learned to blend in harmony with the force of your attacker.
It doesn’t matter because you are about to teach a martial art, an art dedicated to Mars, the God of War. A MARtial art. Even if somewhere over the years you have lost sight of this, your students have not. You wear a black belt. You are an expert on violence. You kick ass.
You are a priest of Mars.
The simple truth is that many of these experts, these priests of Mars, have no experience with violence.
Very, very few have experienced enough to critically look at what they have been taught, and what they are teaching, and separate the myth from the reality.
The Super Star. Do you ever notice that weight lifters don’t look like boxers? For that matter, if you watch fencing matches you see a lot of tall skinny guys, Judo matches tend to be won by short, stocky judoka—basically, none of them look like body builders.
But action stars usually do. Unless they want to appeal to the goth/techno market, in which case they are really skinny, pale-complected, and wear a lot of black.
The idea is the same—pretty sells. In the media world, everything is about attraction.
The fighters look pretty, not the gnarled, scarred up, sometimes toothless fighters that I know. The fights look pretty, too—you can actually see the action and even identify specific techniques.
They are paced for dramatic content. A movie fight doesn’t end when the hero or villain would naturally be lying in a pool of bloody vomit, clutching his abdomen and gurgling.
It ends at the moment the director thinks the audience is hyped and not bored yet.
Even when they try to be realistic, it’s about the spectacle. The very fact that the camera can see what is going on is unrealistic.
In smoke and dust and rain and the melee of bodies or the flash of gunfire, the person right in the middle of it can’t reliably tell what is going on.
And the fighting caters to the audience’s idea of fair. It’s almost always a close fight to the very end, won by a slim margin…
I’ll tell you right now that as a public servant who runs a tactical team if I ever, ever play it fair, if I ever take chances with my men or hostages in order to cater to some half-assed idea of fair play, fire me.
Fair doesn’t happen in real life, not if the bad guys have anything to say about it and not if the professional good guys do, either. I always wanted to see a movie with Conan talking ##### in a bar and looking down to see a knife sticking out of his stomach with no idea how it got there.
The Story. Maybe this is a metaphor, maybe it is a model: Things are what they are. Violence is what it is. You are you, no more and no less—but humans can’t leave simple things alone.
One of the ways we complicate things is by telling stories, especially stories about ourselves. This story we tell ourselves is our identity. The essence of every good story is conflict.
So our identity, the central character of this story that we tell ourselves, is based largely on how we deal with conflict. If there has been little conflict in the life, the character, our identity, is mostly fictional.
I present this as a warning. You are what you are, not what you think you are. Violence is what it is, not necessarily what you have been told.
cant wait for my copy to arrive , hows your copy going Bill ? , youll have to give us a reveiw
Were getting back to what martial arts is designed for it`s function .
is it or ever was it martial ?
is it supposed to have a martial focus ?
was it ever to do with negotiating violence
They took away much of what in that time was considered dangerous for students, so the the enfasis passed from "self-defense" to "a form of phisical exercise" involving group kata practice, but the bunkai was neglected. By not teaching the hidden moves of self-defense, the true intentions of the katas (for example to disable or to even kill, in case of being necessary) fell in the dark causing the development of a new tradition.
I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water. The Marines obviously don't either, and they are professional warriors.
If you remove the martial from martial arts , you`ve thrown out the baby and you`ve kept the bath water . The marines I suspect have a martial focus ...
The ostrich is reputed to hide its head in the sand when faced with the truth.
But some ostrich are also known to flap their gums making all manner of noise when they do not like how events are unfolding.. They attempt to distract the other birds with their racket hoping the others of the flock become confused. The spin doctors of the animal world if you will.
Many a priest from mars has behaved in a similar manner. When confronted with history they suddenly start training with special forces, the marines corps rush in as if in a cowboy flick. It’s kind of comical. Rather than consider something may have been lost from the ryu some high priest will go to any lengths to muddy the waters, as long as they keep jumping those swords it’s all good!
"Karate Jutsu ...
In Japan the word Karate is written with 2 ideograms (kanji).
Originally the first one that was used meant " china" , specifically represented the Tang china dynasty (618-907) usually being used to represent the same china.
The second kanji means hand, so Karate could be translated as " China hand "
When karate was introduced in the major islands of Japan these were employed to represent the art of Karate.
The first book written by Gichin Funakoshi was called Ryukyu Kenpo Karate, published in 1922. In its second revised edition published in 1925 called Karate Goshin jutsu. in Karate Goshin jutsu, Funakoshi used to cover the ideograms " china hand " but when it comes to Karate in his work employs the same ideograms used to write "empty hand " .
The first teacher to be aware in using the term Karate using the kanji which means "empty hand" was Hanashiro Chomo in a 1905 publication of "Karate Shoshu Hen" ( "Karate Kumite").
The teacher Chokie Motobu in his two works, Okinawa Kenpo Karate Jutsu "Techniques in Okinawa Kenpo " published in 1926 and Watashi no Jutsu Karate "My Karate technique " published in 1933 used the kanji " hand china " to write the word Karate.
At the time when the Karate reaches the major islands of Japan existed between the Japanese a strong nationalist sentiment and anti-Chinese sentiment. The First Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895) that faced Japan and China was still present in the Japanese mentality and the second Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) was imminent. To prevent people might think that Karate was a Chinese martial art and non-indigenous as the ju-jutsu or ken-jutsu, they changed the ideogram representing China by another ideogram that is pronounced the same but has a different meaning "empty ". Kenwa Mabuni and Genwa Nakasone in their book Karate Do NYU Mon " initiative to do Karate " published in 1938 , clearly express this sentiment.
"... Easy and misleading advertising has ended the public by concealing the true reality of their practice. The Kenpo Karate was originally presented as Ryu Kyu Kenpo Karate. Ryu Kyu is the name of the archipelago and Kara, the old name that the Japanese gave to China. That coincidence that we thought the Japanese Karate was an art abroad. I will try to undo this misunderstanding. "
The word " jutsu" translates as art, science or technical .
The Karate of the time there was a structure of training, a system of grades or a combat system rules, which made Karate of a system that was considered disorganized and poorly defined. Like happened with the ken-jutsu and the ju-jutsu, its regulations and the establishment of sporting rules led to the replacement of the term " jutsu" by the term "do " (via, path or road ) . In Karate, in order to make it a " modern budo" , also took place this transition was renamed Karate (path of empty hand ) .
The 'do' became a 'road', a way of life, a 'path' you walk while pursuing the goal of achieving perfection Karate (McCarthy). The concept of emptiness in the word 'kara' refers not only to the fact unarmed combat, but the total absence of malignant intentions, the spirit vacuum source of all effectiveness, which characterizes the arts and constitutes its Budo true essence, intimately linked to Buddhist philosophy (Hermenegildo Camps).
The new term to refer to Karate was not recognized in Okinawa until 1936. Specifically in the encounter Teachers Karate which was held in Okinawa, promoted by Genwa Nakasone and sponsored by the Ryukyu Shinposha (Company newspaper Ryukyu). They met teachers Karate among them Kenwa Mabuni, Chokier Motobu, Chojun Miyagi, Kyodo Juhatsu, Chomo Hanashiro, Chosin and Chibana, Shinpo Shiroma. The meeting was formally accepted the term "Karate Do" in its conception of "empty hand" replacing the term Karate Jutsu (or Tote Jutsu) to refer to "China hand" and that was used until that date.
Meeting teachers in Naha in 1936 from left to right:
Above: Shinpo Shiroma, Choryo Maeshiro, Choshin Chibane, Genwa Nakashone,
Below: Chotoku Kyan, Kentsu Yabu, Chomo Hanashiro, Chojun Miyagi
Changing ideogram to represent the word Karate had ratified The Dai Nippon Butokukai in December 1933.
At present the terms' Karate-jutsu 'and' Karate 'employees are so poor, to attach to one another and meanings, virtues or defects with no criteria founded. I find the words about the writer and karate instructor Iain Abernethy very successful: "In recent times the term 'Karate' has been associated with the ineffective Karate makes little or no attempt to use methods that are highly effective in the Karate Kata. Indeed, the practitioners' Karate-Do 'are seen as deluded individuals who practice an art ineffective for children. On the other side we have those who are labeled themselves as practitioners' Karate-jutsu' and are seen as dangerous psychotic delight to be with violence. I find this trend of the most disturbing, and I think that both views are extremely limited and harmful to the Karate as a whole. In my view the real Karate should be both, 'jutsu 'And' do '. I also think that the two approaches are not mutually exclusive and in fact dependent of each other! "
There should not think that 'jutsu' lacked ethical and moral values, therefore does not correspond to anything in reality. Already in the Bubishi, considered by many teachers as the bible of Karate, was left clear the need to instill those values in teaching Karate: "repair itself without people studying quanfa for reasons of health, fun or self-defense, everyone must understand that should not misused. Therefore, instructors should make their disciples casting an oath. In his oath, the disciples must not promise never intentionally hurt anyone or do anything wrong "
Likewise we must remember that the teacher was Kanga Sakugawa (1733-1815) responsible for developing the Dojo-Kun ( "fundamental principles of Dojo"):
• Enhance the character
• Have faith
• Be laborious
• Respect for others
• curb and prevent violence
Talking about 'Karate-jutsu' therefore, is to speak of teachers who practiced karate in Okinawa and all teachers who have subsequently devoted his life to promote and enhance the art of Karate, maintaining the values of martial arts over other interests .
I read some time ago to Charles C. Goodin, tireless historian Karate, the need to recognize that the Karate Okinawa is an art with roots in Okinawa. "Those of us who studied the arts have a responsibility to be good examples. This means not only develop a higher technical education. It is essential for us to learn the history and traditions of art and this means learning about Okinawa itself." When appointing the Karate 'Karate-jutsu' refers to the original Karate Ryukyu Archipelago, that effective self-defense system that wanted to convey the great masters of the martial art, making clear that Karate is a cultural heritage of Okinawa.
https://download.yousendit.com/8F757CC33D351040
Interesting but this trainer doesn’t claim the program makes them H2H experts, he claims it gives them skills to stay alive until a buddy can take out the threat four them with a weapon. Survival skills and mindset building appear to be the goal.
Bill puts the marines and the military up as the pinnacle of martial training. I think your wrong Bill. I couldn’t fight my way out of a sack when I was in the military. I got about 40 hours training. Given the time in training I can’t picture the average marine as an exceptional skilled fighter. But I am impressed with the evolution of training. This is light years ahead of the training I received. Now I spend many years living in and around military bases as my father put in 32 years. I spend my fair share of time in bars on and off base. Saw my fair share of bar fights. I got in a couple as well. Played lacrosse and hockey and took the gloves off with a few military types…Funny but they just fought like all the other blokes. They didn’t appear as a group to be even above average in fighting skills.
However if you want someone to blow a hole in something…these are the guys who will get it done. Their profession is about brining ordinance to target Bill. And they are expert at it. But they are not the elite of the pugilist world as some would portray them. (No disrespect to anyone in uniform intended)
"In recent times the term 'Karate' has been associated with the ineffective Karate makes little or no attempt to use methods that are highly effective in the Karate Kata. Indeed, the practitioners' Karate-Do 'are seen as deluded individuals who practice an art ineffective for children.
Or it becomes nothing more than just an exercise.
Yes some assembly is required! But it appears so many will blindly accept what ever words the martian tells them.
So how does one put the missing prize back in the cracker jacks? Surely misunderstood bunkai or no bunkai is not a great thing. I personally feel to do kata with out knowing the application is just dancing. Well I supose that is an exercise isn't?
Originally posted by Bill Glasheen But it does mean that you have to step back and separate useful from outright silly practices when trying to transfer that knowledge either to self-defense or to hand-to-hand combat.
I'm in the business of making the average new student into credible fighters - - or at least making them better than they were when they walked into the dojo. I've been successful at doing this and unfortunately I'm not smart enough to know what part or parts of the TMA program I could have eliminated to accomplish this.
And from George who is also in the buisness of making the average student into a credible fighter .
Now how would one do this while removing the martial aspects ?
More from George about the lack of Bunkai and sparring focus
I also believe that conditioning drills, especially kotikiti, are very important, but the way they are being performed in many dojo is a terrible waste of energy and aren't related to the style at all.
Free fighting is very much a part of the system, but teachers aren't spending as much time using this part of the system to relate the system to actual fighting as I believe they should.
Bunkai is another area where more attention should be spent and unfortunately, in many dojo it isn't.
And, unfortunately, it is much easier to eliminate something we can't do very well and add something that is easier to grasp, but as teachers we must ask ourselves if this is best for our students.
