very interesting!!!

[JimHawkins]

Since I wasn't going to change the way I teach.

Just wondering...

Have you ever changed the way you teach in terms of content?

Is it not reasonable to try to leave the art better than how we found it?

Is it not even more important for those with influence over large martial organizations to attempt to do so?

[gmattson]

I am constantly experimenting with my classes. Any teacher worth the title considers his art "a work in progress".

However, someone posted a clip of a movie my dojo was in, back in the early years of the Mattson Academy. The content is "the same" as what I teach today - but my methods of teaching are quite different.

I spend much time working on basics. . . the tools of Uechi. Those are the same as they were when I first learned the art back in the 50s.

Any good teacher can spend an entire class "working" a single move from any kata, and never repeat a technique or application. But the move in the kata remains the same. I feel it is my job to pass on the art in its original form. . . regarding tools and. . . an art that remains fluid and flexible in usage.

All that being said, I can't transform mindset in an individual without commitment and work beyond 'honing' the tools, and for some, this will never be an objective and even if it is, will never happen. But where the intent and commitment is there, I do provide the encouragement, guidance and people who can help with this challenge.

[cxt]

Jim

Yeah, no disagreement with that at all--but again that was so not the point of my post--nor was that in context with the post I was responding to.

Its not an "unimportant" point at all---your just are essentially spinning what I really didn't say or imply to make another point out of context with the discussion I was having with a somebody else.

Carlos posted links to the bunkai without explination as if they "meant" something---I simply don't see whatever he seems to feel is clearly evident nor do I see why its at all important overall.

My comments in regard to "level" refer back to the people highlighted in the clips ie the context of the discussion----and most students are not and are unlikley to be noteworthy national competitors....that's simply the breaks in martial arts.

I don't disagree with your point in the slighest---I simply object to your taking my post out of its specific context and quoting it as if I somehow did disagree with you on the need for hard partner practice.

I don't and I didn't.

[Bill Glasheen]

Hey, Gang!

A couple of comments...

• I am mildly amused at being part of a "George and Bill" team when I intentionally left this thread for almost 2 days. I find doing so refreshing. More heat than light is shed when people who disagree don't take time to reflect. So to my esteemed colleague who suggested that I was playing a "you dissed me" card... all I can say is that I must be a damn good card player when hands are played w/o me being present. Thanks for the compliment.
• Van, you rock! Thanks for both the content and tone of your posts.
• FWIW, I indeed came up with "Some assembly required" when describing Uechi Ryu. These are the words that strike fear in the hearts of dads putting toys together at 2 AM on Christmas morning. I first heard it used out of context by a consultant working for SAS (a software company). He was describing the nature of a data mining software product (SAS Enterprise Miner). I so liked his use of the expression that - in the style of Milton Berle - I stole it.
• I've always approached martial arts with a "Shaolin" perspective. When I was at The University, my book, dojo, and music learning were all one to me. This was "the old way." I guess in some ways I jump back a few more generations with my perspective.
  
  In this regard... I approach issues and controversies by trying to draw from a broader set of perspectives. When we get to contentious issues, I am reminded of how my (academia-based) present place of employment founders handled such situations. They started with defining principles.
  
  I'd like to suggest that one good thing about Uechi - and something that confounds both lovers and detractors - is the (or perhaps my) underlying principle of parsimony. For example... To me, a wa-uke is a misnomer. It's just a circle, damnit!! When I watch Rory - a LEO trainer and traditional Sosuishitsu Ryu practitioner - blend with a bad guy, I see him executing circles. Rory's circles are rarely blocks. But these circles are the same damn circles I'm practicing in my Sanchin. And my Sanchin circles are the same circles I'm doing in every other kata in the system.
  
  I'm a big, big believer in simplifying this system by reducing all the complex moves to a core set of simple movements and/or concepts. Why? Because to make this schit work in a brand new situation, you have to put the pieces and parts together in unique ways. The less you (over)specify in thousands and thousands of bunkai kumite and yakusoku kumite, the better. You want to think as little as possible at the moment of truth, and act as instinctively as possible. Doing so with as few elements as possible is IMO the best way to go.
  
  Come up with a couple of bunkai and yakusoku kumite? Absolutely. Call that "the system"? IMO, it was never, ever intended to be that. Make it required material? Perhaps. "The board" just wants to see that you can do "a" bunkai (or two) and "a" yakusoku kumite (or two).
  
  But please, please don't think you should stop there. And please don't waste your time getting worked up over them. Study them, do them well, teach them, and then discard when you are done.
  
  When I say "Some assembly required", I mean Uechi gives you the paintbrush and canvass, and YOU paint the picture. THAT is the essence of our martial art. We'll let you paint by numbers in the beginning. But nobody gives a rat's arse about that work. We want to see what YOU can paint for us.
• With all that in mind... Have Kanbun's students "watered the system down" by adding some additional training material? You can believe that if you wish. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
  
  But I DO want to see others' interpretations of what "it" is. If someone's got an idea, Missouri! (Show me!) This independent work must be there, or else we haven't just lost the martial; we have lost the art.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

Here are a few 'circle' grenades that will send all the Uechi detractors with their dreams of superior fighting concepts to an early grave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pant_xwqHMc

[RA Miller]

I think the ‘dilution’ as seen by many, including seniors from sister organizations, who may or may not have axes to grind, stems from the basic concept that Uechi has a long history of being a formidable defensive style…

with Kanbun training his students long and hard into the night, and engaging in very close quarters ‘jyu-Kobo’ meaning free attack-defense _ scenarios full out in his small dojo, according to historical accounts flowing from Toyama sensei, one of his direct students.


Then we know about the historical ‘kick ass’ exploits of Kanbun and his students in Wakayama against thugs.

Also people look at the history of Seiyu Shinjio, the tiger of Okinawa, a direct disciple of Kanbun_ and witness his son Kyohide in modern days…in performance and training methodology.

It's not just a 'there' or 'then' phenomenon. I believe it was in "Street Soldier: My Life as an Enforcer for white Bulger and the Irish Mob" the author, who was a pure violent thug attempted to perform some random acts of violence and got soundly stomped. He wrote that he was unfortunate to attempt to victimize people who it turned out traine at George Mattson's Karate Academy.

It's been several years since I read the book, so details are fuzzy- but application has worked right here and not too long ago.

Rory

[f.Channell]

Van,
To think I paid $40 for that video on youtube
There's actually a woman on it from another style who's quite amazing.

And yes Rory, I read the book and was told who that was, but never discussing it with him I don't feel right about sharing it. There's no shortage of other Uechi success stories. Carlos being the most recent.
I train in Iaido and self defense doesn't even enter my mind, but if someone breaks in my house and threatens my family and my Bokken is handy, be sure I'll make it Iai-jutsu in a heartbeat.

[Van Canna]

It's not just a 'there' or 'then' phenomenon. I believe it was in "Street Soldier: My Life as an Enforcer for white Bulger and the Irish Mob" the author, who was a pure violent thug attempted to perform some random acts of violence and got soundly stomped. He wrote that he was unfortunate to attempt to victimize people who it turned out trained at George Mattson's Karate Academy.

True enough. The Mattson Academy did have some fine martial specimen amongst its large group of students, who trained with a different focus, as George explained some would….some would not.

Bill also set forth the underlying 'characteristics' of the many who reached a certain 'combative stage' that manifested in the slammer matches of the time and in some nasty street encounters.

But those were also different times with different ‘exposures’ engendering a different ‘arena’ in that huge ‘Boston Central’ dojo.

The Mattson Academy did have the respect of the ‘wise guys’ _

Through a dear friend that George also knew, now deceased_ who owned a luxury auto dealership, I came to know the ‘Winter Hill’ group fairly well, and I will leave it at that.

In mixed company, ‘Howie Winter’ was a consummate gentlemen and a man of his word.

One particular fearsome ‘soldier’ came to watch me win a tournament at the Loring Arena in Framingham.

At some point later when I was teaching for George at his South Boston dojo, there was an ‘interest’ in private lessons from me …did not come to pass.

Point being, yes, it has ‘worked’ then, as it still does now for a certain group of us who trained with a different focus in the manner that George pointed out.

[Laird2]

I am mildly amused at being part of a "George and Bill" team when I intentionally left this thread for almost 2 days. I find doing so refreshing. More heat than light is shed when people who disagree don't take time to reflect. So to my esteemed colleague who suggested that I was playing a "you dissed me" card... all I can say is that I must be a damn good card player when hands are played w/o me being present. Thanks for the compliment.

This is your card I believe Bill. Sure sounds like a diss card.

[quote="Bill Glasheen]Please review some of the posts in this thread. The communication in places is insulting, with no attempt to be subtle at all. And yet some who would communicate in an insulting manner would be the first to cry foul when their honor was infringed upon.[/quote]

Doesn't look like there's anything left of this thread so I'll be on my way. Have a good camp people.

[JimHawkins]

Sure sounds like a diss card.

I agree in as much as nebulous references to dissing, detracting, insulting, etc, etc, should be specifically addressed for whatever was actually said.. Otherwise it's just a lame debating non-tactic.

Points made in a disrespectful manner or personal attacks should be pointed out for what they are..

Criticisms or critiques of whatever methodologies are just that, and if invalid or incorrect should be corrected for what they are--if they can be that is.

[Stryke]

I agree in as much as nebulous references to dissing, detracting, insulting, etc, etc, should be specifically addressed for whatever was actually said.. Otherwise it's just a lame debating non-tactic.

bingo Jim , but that would take work and communication and honesty , good luck

We have managed to transform a thread on intent and the transformation of the arts . the big bad discussion must just go away .

As been stated many times it`s how you train and what your train .

nothing to learn from continued circular arguments , and never get too training specifics .

why the distance why the closed fist focus etc etc .....

[Bill Glasheen]

Here are a few 'circle' grenades that will send all the Uechi detractors with their dreams of superior fighting concepts to an early grave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pant_xwqHMc

Van

I was a Shinjo Seiyu dojo fan from way back. In the mid 1970s, one of my instructors (Dave Finkelstein) was regularly visiting the Kadena dojo and bringing back "Shinjo goodies." This was also back in the day when our own Bobby visited Okinawa for The All Okinawa Championships, and had several opportunities to face Kiyohide San in sport and dojo competition.

You can't make those stories up. <sigh...>

Even after The Championship where Bobby and Kiyohide faced off, Papa Shinjo was more than kind to Bobby. More stories...

I've had several opportunities to meet and work with Kiyohide and Narahiro through camps and visits to Marty Dow's dojo (near DC). They are both fantastic students AND teachers. Their father taught them both well.

I look at how tough these two are. The stories of Shinjo and Nakahodo breaking Louisville Slugger bats with shins and forearms are legendary. The evidence is both on video and in bat pieces mounted on walls.

But with all that, here's the thing. Kenyukai Inc. has made its mark on the system. This isn't carbon copy Kanbun Ryu. This is the Shinjo family stamp on what we do. This is how they have fleshed out the style's principles.

So... What are we doing?

When I see those inspirational videos, I don't just want to do more conditioning. Heck... I've ALWAYS done conditioning. I've done it for so long that I know the limits of my DNA more than anyone.

What I want to do is put MY mark on the system. So when I mix all my experiences together, I see that video and say "Yes, but..." One of the "buts" is looking at Kiyohide's vision of a boshiken. He likes to break things with it. But now that I have my own experiences, I see that as all yang and missing the yin. Why are there no demonstrations of grabbing and crushing things with the boshiken???

I don't dwell on the past and some "old way" that we should pay homage to. I use "old ways" to inspire me as to where I want to take MY art. I want MY Uechi to be inspired by the grappling arts. "Pan gai noon" to me isn't a literal "half hard, half soft." It's thrusting and grabbing for a shoken. It's thrusting with the boshiken, closing/crushing it like a hiraken, and pulling/twisting while the pig squeals. (Think double thrusts, squeezes, and pulls in Sanchin) It's striking and grappling. It's pounding and yielding. It's yin merging into yang - like the symbol - with no gray to be found.

Going farther... Sometimes I want a circle to intercept a thrust. And sometimes I want a circle to wrap like a snake around a neck and...

I think we should study and pay homage to the past. But I think there's plenty of good stuff out there in the here-and-now to run with. Joe Pomfret is a great example of someone who "gets" this at some level. Mike Murphy is another. One of my instructors (Goju and aikido practiced by a green beret) is another.

The MMA guys in the ring "get" this at some level.

Rory sniffing around the Uechi group "gets" this at some level.

Jim with Wing Chun on the brain "gets" this at some level.

And then there is the peanut gallery, challenging us at every step of the way. Let them.

I'm not worried about what we lost, gentlemen. I can't control the inevitable distortions intrinsic to oral history and human transfer of information. But I can control where I go with what I have.

I'm having too much fun thinking about the possibilities. I want to see the portfolio of ideas growing.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

[gmattson]

Bill. . . What a great description of what YOUR Uechi is all about. Bravo!

Rory. . . I remember the book - and the individuals involved, on both sides. And interestingly, all involved from the Mattson Academy heavily practiced Dan Kumite!

Oh yes, so do the Shinjo boys.

[CARLOS SENSEI]

Hi sensei George
something that I want to know where this thread is:
if you remember their days in Okinawa,
japonization of karate okinawense happened?
you could see it?
you could realize?