very interesting!!!

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm

If it walks like a strawman, talks like a strawman, acts like a strawman...

Jim Hawkins wrote:
The practice of diluting training, where the training is the product, is not better or somehow deeper, or teaches folks how to fish better... It's simply a diluted curriculum

Well, Jim, then stop diluting your curriculum!

- Bill

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:58 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote:If it walks like a strawman, talks like a strawman, acts like a strawman...

Jim Hawkins wrote:
The practice of diluting training, where the training is the product, is not better or somehow deeper, or teaches folks how to fish better... It's simply a diluted curriculum
Well, Jim, then stop diluting your curriculum!

- Bill

And I'm the straw man? Okay.....

Again..

Are you essentially trying to say, well it could be just as good or better when not taught correctly..?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:05 pm

JimHawkins wrote:
And I'm the straw man?

You created a strawman. See straw man.

- Bill

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:07 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote:
JimHawkins wrote:
And I'm the straw man?
You created a strawman. See straw man.

- Bill

No I did not.. I asked a question which for some strange reason you chose not to answer twice...

Are you essentially trying to say, well it could be just as good or better when not taught correctly or less is taught..?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:12 pm

JimHawkins wrote:
Are you essentially trying to say, well it could be just as good or better when not taught correctly..?

Oops! And there’s another!

It's obvious from your lightning speed response that you aren't even bothering to read any of the links I'm providing

I’ll discuss when you're interested in a dialogue. Right now it's just a monologue, Jim.

And besides, there's a Red Sox game on right now!

- Bill

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:13 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote:
JimHawkins wrote:
Are you essentially trying to say, well it could be just as good or better when not taught correctly..?
Oops! And there’s another!

It's obvious from your lightning speed response that you aren't even bothering to read any of the links I'm providing

I’ll discuss when you're interested in a dialogue. Right now it's just a monologue, Jim.

And besides, there's a Red Sox game on right now!

- Bill

Why should I read a bunch of links if you can't even answer a simple y/n question..??

That's thrice!!!

You're making my point...

And 'no dialogue' goes both ways baby....

Reality:

No dilution is not good... Yes, dilution is in 99.9% of all TMA...

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:18 pm

funny Bill I would say that you are the strawman here, your link to the history of Okinawa doesn't say very much at all.no mention of "Tegumi" which you mentioned earlier.................but some referances to China

There are many examples of martial arts being diluted......look at Tai-Chi, it took me years to find somebody who had even a basic idea of the fighting principles.most of the folks doing it don't have a clue as to the fighting nature of it

Martial arts are about skills, learning a kata means nothing, it is only a training tool like a punchbag, it contains information...now if you don't have that information it becomes worthless................this idea of "Some Assembly required" is pathetic, You wouldn't accept that in any science or craft. Would you accept that in Medicine. Guy is ill...give him some drugs.what drugs?...I dunno Some assembly required:lol:

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:23 pm

jorvik wrote: Guy is ill...give him some drugs.what drugs?...I dunno Some assembly required:lol:

All is in the medical kata--find it...!

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:40 pm

If the cap fits wear it....

Son, there is no easy answer in life. There is no way I can teach you how to be yourself, and how you will react when you are faced with violence. All I have is stories about my own life, and the way I came to understand it.

Some people look at a teacher as some kind of deity, that will teach you things, you won't have to use because as soon as you learn the knowledge, you are magically protected and secluded in his force field of power.

There are many people who spend their whole lives lost in the field of martial arts, looking for the one teacher who can teach them everything about everything. There has to be someone out there who can give me the answer to every problem I might face, who can take the place my father used to, and protect me from the reality of life.

When that doesn't happen, the petulant little child starts crying and breaking things. "You're not my father!" he cries, not realizing that he has no father, and never did, not in the way he imagined.

Because a father has no power to change reality and to magically make the world a different place. All he can do is offer guidance, and show the way that has been walked.

The rest is up to you, son. Show me what you've learned, not what has been told to you. Show me that you know what to do, not what other people told you they did in their lives.

Karate is nothing more than people. That's it.

And speaking of people, some people are a godsend to me, because they remind me constantly that there are those who need understanding and universal compassion. I need to be reminded that I shouldn't become impatient and angry, but indulge them in their wayward path to wherever they're going.

Just because they don't understand what the hell is really going on, doesn't mean I should waste my time being angry with them.

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:46 pm

fivedragons wrote:If the cap fits wear it....

Son, there is no easy answer in life. There is no way I can teach you how to be yourself, and how you will react when you are faced with violence. All I have is stories about my own life, and the way I came to understand it.

Some people look at a teacher as some kind of deity, that will teach you things, you won't have to use because as soon as you learn the knowledge, you are magically protected and secluded in his force field of power.

There are many people who spend their whole lives lost in the field of martial arts, looking for the one teacher who can teach them everything about everything. There has to be someone out there who can give me the answer to every problem I might face, who can take the place my father used to, and protect me from the reality of life.

When that doesn't happen, the petulant little child starts crying and breaking things. "You're not my father!" he cries, not realizing that he has no father, and never did, not in the way he imagined.

Because a father has no power to change reality and to magically make the world a different place. All he can do is offer guidance, and show the way that has been walked.

The rest is up to you, son. Show me what you've learned, not what has been told to you. Show me that you know what to do, not what other people told you they did in their lives.

Karate is nothing more than people. That's it.

And none of this has anything to do with the FACT that teachers over the years have twisted, diluted, omitted and otherwise tainted the curriculum of most all TMA, some more than others..

If you think that's good, that's fine by me.. If you accept that, that's fine by me.. If you think it doesn't matter that's fine by me..

It is what it is..

As I said--I maintain that in my system teaching it poorly results generally in crap... Teaching it correctly produces better results.. If all we taught was the forms STOP...you wouldn't have a prayer at learning 90% of it, because *it* means the skills to use the tools and moves of the system in an alive and natural manner and that requires alive and natural instruction....

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:44 pm

That's good Jim, teach your system well. Maybe we'll see some evidence of its efficacy.

Ahem, meanwhile there's been a lot of people on this forum who actually teach, and do weird things like work for the DEA and the Secret Service. Teach the Marine Corps. Fight in MMA matches, and win. Teach MMA competitors, who win. There was a scout sniper in there somewhere, I believe there's someone who frequents these forums who works for some kind of alphabet agency, god only knows what he does, but he seems to know alot about math and philosophy.

A few police and state troopers, I think there is a uechi instructor who just became an airborne ranger, or something like it.

Maybe if you could take the time to articulate just what you think these people are missing, maybe we could help you find what you're looking for. Dumbass.

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:00 pm

fivedragons wrote: A few police and state troopers, I think there is a uechi instructor who just became an airborne ranger, or something like it.

Maybe if you could take the time to articulate just what you think these people are missing, maybe we could help you find what you're looking for. Dumbass.

Ah, name calling... The calling card of the IQ deficient.. Very nice..

Perhaps you could articulate what you think my assessment of training in my art has to do with Uechi snipers and begs your inarticulate, prepubescent name calling..

What is it in the opinions I stated about training my system and the fact that dilution in the arts is typical that makes you so angry? They have nothing to do with you do they? Or for that matter snipers, firemen, marines and so on.

What do you think they have to do with you that makes you lose your ability to discuss the facts and act like an adult?

And if you can't figure out why that is perhaps I could suggest seeing a good shrink...

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:25 pm

Posted by Jim: "What is it in the opinions I stated about training my system and the fact that dilution in the arts is typical that makes you so angry? They have nothing to do with you do they? Or for that matter snipers, firemen, marines and so on."

What makes me angry is that you talk to these people like they don't know what they're doing. What really makes me angry is that the only reason you spend your time typing words on your computer is that you somehow feel that you need the validation of others to go on living your empty shell of a life. It pisses me off to see someone so emotionally crippled that their only recourse is to constantly attack the way other people do things, day after tedious day.

Really, I'm not angry, I care about you the same way I would care about any stranger in the street. Let's just put it this way, I care about you because you're a human being just like me.

Give yourself a rest, buddy. Forget about wing chun for like a week, and relax by the beach, or go camping or hiking in the mountains.

Buy a bike and go for a ride. Maybe you just need to talk to someone honestly, without them being behind a computer screen.

God bless.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:30 pm

Jim

My art is fine, teaching it is a joy, my peers rock, and the outcomes speak for themselves.

Sorry your vision of TMA is "twisted, diluted, {has material} omitted and {is} otherwise tainted." If there is anything I can do to help you fix it, let me know.

And you are always welcome to train in my school. The door is always open.

- Bill

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:39 pm

Amazing how adults can't stick to the topic, deal with relevant questions, my comments on my own arts failings and limitations, and/or the state of CMA, etc, and permit personal attacks and insults, yet call themselves MAs, moderators and educators...

And I'm not alone by far here in my positions..

Why would I come to your school in light of this?

Very sad..