
Why do men cheat?
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- Crystal.Sands.McKinney/Be
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- Bill Glasheen
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Any health care practitioner knows that people lie about sex - in both directions. Some say they didn't (don't, wouldn't) have it when they did (will, would), and vice versa. Many people in fact have a major disconnect between the say/do and think/do aspects of behavior when it comes to sex.
Life is about choices and consequences to those choices.
There are a number of things going on here - all of which play into the equation.
Life is complicated. The human actions here are often simple. The greater plan is what it is.
- Bill
Life is about choices and consequences to those choices.
There are a number of things going on here - all of which play into the equation.
- Like
- Love
- Lust
- Sex
- Intimacy
- Communication
- Procreation
- Values and moral code
- Relationships of many kinds
- Social and legal constructs
- Empathy
Life is complicated. The human actions here are often simple. The greater plan is what it is.
- Bill
- Bill Glasheen
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- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
To those fixated on lust or procreation... I found these works fascinating when I ran across therm.


So by the account of well known physician and researcher Dean Ornish, "love and intimacy" aren't just about making babies or seeking pleasure. They are also major contributors to our overall health.
That's perhaps something to consider when talking about people trapped in their life situations because of issues more important than their own selfish wishes.
- Bill


So by the account of well known physician and researcher Dean Ornish, "love and intimacy" aren't just about making babies or seeking pleasure. They are also major contributors to our overall health.
That's perhaps something to consider when talking about people trapped in their life situations because of issues more important than their own selfish wishes.
- Bill
- Crystal.Sands.McKinney/Be
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- Shana Moore
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I think Ian has spoken some very hard and good words for consideration.
I've known folks with open relationships that actually work, but it takes a very special type of relationship to handle the...complications, emotionally and physically. I've also known several "open" relationships that worked for a little while and then crashed/burned. I don't consider mutually agreed upon open relationships to be cheating, because it was mutually agreed upon situation...with the caveat that all parties are speaking truthfully and without pressure. But I do believe that mutually agreed situation can change and should be maintained with open communication. But, I am a bit open minded in my views on sensuality,and I accept that all will not agree with my point of view.
I've been in and witnessed abusive relationships as well, and I agree with Mary that the best thing is to get out for yourself...and not for someone else. As the person you are moving to...is probably not a first choice, but a convenient one or one "of the moment"....all wrapped up with it's own complications and psychological baggage. Relationships, especially long term, are hard enough without starting with a handicap and extra baggage!
That said, any relationship needs to have open communication to last. Communication can be very hard. If you aren't getting the emotional/physical/otherwise interactions you need from your spouse, then it is your responsibility to broach that subject. In some cases, particularly abusive ones, that can be very dangerous. However, keep in mind that getting away to a safe place/shelter is one way of opening a dialogue.
For most relationships where cheating is involved, though, I would wager that it's not a case of dangerous physical abuse. Instead it's the injustices of emotional coldness, personal selfishness, self-absorption, or simply (and it happens) growing in two different directions. When kids and community are involved, that makes it all the harder to broach the topic and work on it. But it also makes it more important to seek counseling...alone, if your partner won't attend with you. Changing the nature of your relationship may be one solution. Separating or divorcing may be another. But emotionally damaging relationships don't just affect the two spouses...so I don't believe in "staying together for hte sake of the kids". Kids are not dumb, and they hurt quietly all the same when it's clear thier parents don't really like one another anymore. Is that really the message we want them to recieve of what is "normal" in a relationship?
In the end, cheating is typically a symptom of a problem and not a solution.
In the end, cheating sacrifices a small part of you and your honour.
Sometimes, it's worth it. Most times, I'm inclined to believe it's convenient and simply comforting.
And in the end, it's a personal choice and one that each person must make and live with, realizing thier choice doesn't simply affect them.
My 2 cents.
I've known folks with open relationships that actually work, but it takes a very special type of relationship to handle the...complications, emotionally and physically. I've also known several "open" relationships that worked for a little while and then crashed/burned. I don't consider mutually agreed upon open relationships to be cheating, because it was mutually agreed upon situation...with the caveat that all parties are speaking truthfully and without pressure. But I do believe that mutually agreed situation can change and should be maintained with open communication. But, I am a bit open minded in my views on sensuality,and I accept that all will not agree with my point of view.
I've been in and witnessed abusive relationships as well, and I agree with Mary that the best thing is to get out for yourself...and not for someone else. As the person you are moving to...is probably not a first choice, but a convenient one or one "of the moment"....all wrapped up with it's own complications and psychological baggage. Relationships, especially long term, are hard enough without starting with a handicap and extra baggage!
That said, any relationship needs to have open communication to last. Communication can be very hard. If you aren't getting the emotional/physical/otherwise interactions you need from your spouse, then it is your responsibility to broach that subject. In some cases, particularly abusive ones, that can be very dangerous. However, keep in mind that getting away to a safe place/shelter is one way of opening a dialogue.
For most relationships where cheating is involved, though, I would wager that it's not a case of dangerous physical abuse. Instead it's the injustices of emotional coldness, personal selfishness, self-absorption, or simply (and it happens) growing in two different directions. When kids and community are involved, that makes it all the harder to broach the topic and work on it. But it also makes it more important to seek counseling...alone, if your partner won't attend with you. Changing the nature of your relationship may be one solution. Separating or divorcing may be another. But emotionally damaging relationships don't just affect the two spouses...so I don't believe in "staying together for hte sake of the kids". Kids are not dumb, and they hurt quietly all the same when it's clear thier parents don't really like one another anymore. Is that really the message we want them to recieve of what is "normal" in a relationship?
In the end, cheating is typically a symptom of a problem and not a solution.
In the end, cheating sacrifices a small part of you and your honour.
Sometimes, it's worth it. Most times, I'm inclined to believe it's convenient and simply comforting.
And in the end, it's a personal choice and one that each person must make and live with, realizing thier choice doesn't simply affect them.
My 2 cents.
Live True, Laugh often
Shana
Shana
- Crystal.Sands.McKinney/Be
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Children in bad situations
I agree with you Shana. My father cheated on my mother numerous amounts of times, yet because she vowed to God "till death do them part" she took it for all it's worth. Life was miserable and we children also got the abuse not just emotionally, but physically. My parents loved to hate each other and tried to separate at least 5 times with in 35 years. I actually started working full time while in high school to try to help make up for money that would be lost so they would divorce. I felt it was the best policy. All those years of trying to help never paid off, till is basically killed my mother. She died on Non-smokers Lung cancer, but Hospice said it was cause by an endless broken heart. How sad that some people feel they deserve to be treated that way.
Some can be strong and shrug it off while others dwell in the situation until it completely consumes them.
With children involved it brings it to a whole other level, and many people suffer because they get so beaten down by the hurt and the pain they give up, and stop loving themselves.
Some can be strong and shrug it off while others dwell in the situation until it completely consumes them.
With children involved it brings it to a whole other level, and many people suffer because they get so beaten down by the hurt and the pain they give up, and stop loving themselves.
Life is a series of quests - become your own hero.
Ugh, sad story. Sorry. My parents are divorced and good thing--I was luckily spared the mess, as far as I'm concerned they've always been divorced--and while there are some disadvantages to hearing your parents badmouth each other a little or fight over you for holidays, it beats an in-home charade and ongoing war, plus, if my step mother hadn't forcefed me books, who knows? So maybe I'm overthinking the "stay married for kids thing", hmm... and people should generally leave what's imperfect if they need to. I will clarify that situations in which cheating is what I would call understandable are definitely rare. And if at all possible, people in abusive relationships, physical or emotional, should get out, and find a nuturing place.
I do believe love is a key component of health (one that doctors don't assess or address) although I'm not sure Bill wants to eat everything Ornish sells, especially the Ornish diet
I do believe love is a key component of health (one that doctors don't assess or address) although I'm not sure Bill wants to eat everything Ornish sells, especially the Ornish diet

--Ian
- Crystal.Sands.McKinney/Be
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Children and Bad Marriages...the consequences that follow
Yeah, life ***** sometimes. I was old enough and tired enough of the situation that I kept the bull horns on my head and plunged through life. However, my siblings were not that fortunate, esp. my Late Mother. But to watch the relaxed spine tingling smile on her face, as she took her last breath, not only brought me closer to God as she was telling me she saw Jesus, but it also brought me peace. Out of 22 years of my life, I had never ever seen her that happy. Sad to say that was the only way she got her rewards, until the afterlife. At least someone cared enough to finally bring her home out of her struggling misery. As soon as she died, my Father surprisingly enough was secretly dating one of her volunteer nurses. I had never met her till that day.
A little history on this woman. She is a preachers daughter, been married 4 times, had not ever worked a real job and had 3 walk - in closets of clothing and expensive ones at that. She was always dressed to the "T". Hair was always perfect and teeth always bleached. This was a big sign she has some issues. My father has OCD on the anal side of things which didn't help coping with life. That woman obviously did too and then some. Well, as she was getting out of a divorce, my father used Mom's insurance money to pay for it and were planning to get married. Hmmmm? My 9 year old brother at the time, told him that she will do him like she has done every other husband and take him for all he has and divorce him.
3 months after Mom dies, she convinces my father to give his parental rights up to my siblings. I of course agreed to this only because I knew that social services would show these children what real life was and guide them in more positive directions. I still have rights to see them and it has been 8 years. My sister is 22 and now lives in MO, with my divorced father who had to have a church supply him with what he has....TADA! My sister also has ODC and bi-polar/borderline personality issues. (Could have been through osmosis and constant environmental disruption?) My brother is 17 and lives in the Blue Ridge of VA. This was a hard decision but my faith helped me agree it was the best one for everyone's sake.
My brother has not seen my sister since April 4th of 2001, nor talked to my father. When he turns 18 on Valentine's Day, if he decides to stay with the system till 21 for college coverage, he may not be able to talk to dad till then.
So yes...I completely agree that staying married for the sake of the children not only is wrong but dangerous and disablitating to the children. Some grow up thinking that life is normal in their situation and pass the circle on to their own families. It takes a strong willed person to help break the cycle and guide a child in the right direction of what real civilization and survival is all about. I have helped many families of children as a Nanny guide them as their parents are transitioning their relationships. Some parents are too ignorant in life for what it really is. So adults can be the biggest idiots because they find a comfort zone and then give up.. But children still have a bit of instinct in their minds, and raging curiosity that can be used as a survival response if tended to in a correct fashion.
A little history on this woman. She is a preachers daughter, been married 4 times, had not ever worked a real job and had 3 walk - in closets of clothing and expensive ones at that. She was always dressed to the "T". Hair was always perfect and teeth always bleached. This was a big sign she has some issues. My father has OCD on the anal side of things which didn't help coping with life. That woman obviously did too and then some. Well, as she was getting out of a divorce, my father used Mom's insurance money to pay for it and were planning to get married. Hmmmm? My 9 year old brother at the time, told him that she will do him like she has done every other husband and take him for all he has and divorce him.
3 months after Mom dies, she convinces my father to give his parental rights up to my siblings. I of course agreed to this only because I knew that social services would show these children what real life was and guide them in more positive directions. I still have rights to see them and it has been 8 years. My sister is 22 and now lives in MO, with my divorced father who had to have a church supply him with what he has....TADA! My sister also has ODC and bi-polar/borderline personality issues. (Could have been through osmosis and constant environmental disruption?) My brother is 17 and lives in the Blue Ridge of VA. This was a hard decision but my faith helped me agree it was the best one for everyone's sake.
My brother has not seen my sister since April 4th of 2001, nor talked to my father. When he turns 18 on Valentine's Day, if he decides to stay with the system till 21 for college coverage, he may not be able to talk to dad till then.
So yes...I completely agree that staying married for the sake of the children not only is wrong but dangerous and disablitating to the children. Some grow up thinking that life is normal in their situation and pass the circle on to their own families. It takes a strong willed person to help break the cycle and guide a child in the right direction of what real civilization and survival is all about. I have helped many families of children as a Nanny guide them as their parents are transitioning their relationships. Some parents are too ignorant in life for what it really is. So adults can be the biggest idiots because they find a comfort zone and then give up.. But children still have a bit of instinct in their minds, and raging curiosity that can be used as a survival response if tended to in a correct fashion.
Life is a series of quests - become your own hero.
I think a lot of these "rules" are in place for older generations, and aren't seen so rigidly by the younger ones. Religious dogma no longer holds sway over people, and in fact drives them away.
I'm happy that people are starting to think freely and logically all over the country thanks to the internet. I read about a principal in a rural Georgian town who got fired the other day because he "told on" a girl for being a lesbian and then suspended her because she was a dirty sinner. The old folks all thought it was great, and obviously the youth were enraged and out went the principal.
I'm happy that people are starting to think freely and logically all over the country thanks to the internet. I read about a principal in a rural Georgian town who got fired the other day because he "told on" a girl for being a lesbian and then suspended her because she was a dirty sinner. The old folks all thought it was great, and obviously the youth were enraged and out went the principal.
- Crystal.Sands.McKinney/Be
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- Bill Glasheen
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I agree... to a point.TSDguy wrote:
Screw other people telling you what to do!
By definition, we're talking about relationships. And the network of relationships run deep around us.
Sex/intimacy is supercharged communication between two people, and it affects the entire network of relationships in either a positive or negative way. That is what it is, and there's nothing we do that will change it.
We can go on in life saying "screw other people." But an empathy-free, self seeking attitude could one day end up hurting a lot of people.
Sigh...
There is sound logic behind The Golden Rule, and a reason why every culture and/or religion has some equivalent. If a person is lacking in empathy - and there are people out there like this - then it helps to be considering said rule before putting life plans into action.
- Bill
Well if your SO is telling you what to do, that's a major problem.
But none of that was really my point. No one outside of your relationship has any business in what you do. People would be a lot happier in life if they stopped thinking in such dogmatic terms about sex and relationships. Many people from a couple generations ago can't even conceive of a healthy open relationship, a bi-sexual relationship, having dozens of partners, or pretty much anything IJ wrote about. It's like teaching an old dog a new trick. Society has told people for centuries that you don't touch yourself or anyone else until you get married and then you goddam stay that way and never, ever enjoy any of it.
Edit: I'm reminded of some "trouble" I got in when I was young. One of my friends jokingly wrote "you ******!" in my yearbook. My mom found that and was appalled. For one, she didn't realize that's not what sucking means anymore, and two, she told me no one should ever do that to anyone. I actually met a girl once who told me it was wrong for a guy to want to orally pleasure her. I quickly lost interest. Very quickly.
But none of that was really my point. No one outside of your relationship has any business in what you do. People would be a lot happier in life if they stopped thinking in such dogmatic terms about sex and relationships. Many people from a couple generations ago can't even conceive of a healthy open relationship, a bi-sexual relationship, having dozens of partners, or pretty much anything IJ wrote about. It's like teaching an old dog a new trick. Society has told people for centuries that you don't touch yourself or anyone else until you get married and then you goddam stay that way and never, ever enjoy any of it.

Edit: I'm reminded of some "trouble" I got in when I was young. One of my friends jokingly wrote "you ******!" in my yearbook. My mom found that and was appalled. For one, she didn't realize that's not what sucking means anymore, and two, she told me no one should ever do that to anyone. I actually met a girl once who told me it was wrong for a guy to want to orally pleasure her. I quickly lost interest. Very quickly.
Well, my social libertarianism runs into some of my medical work at a point, TSDguy... I don't advocate people having a lot of partners, for health reasons, and there IS a point at which outside parties do have an interest in what goes on "in your bedroom." A classic example: bathhouses at the height of the HIV epidemic, and for that matter, now, since the incidence of new cases isn't a whole lot better. It DOES matter to the general public if there's a highly efficient way to spread disease (which, outside of the protect-the-stupid mandate, comes under government scrutiny when government foots the bill for those people's healthcare and the healthcare of all those they infect). Unfortunately it would prove very difficult to close the online bathhouses no matter what's done about the physical ones. The distinction here is that the government should care like they care about paying for brain injured motorcyclists or sick smokers, rather than trying to pin a scarlet A on anybody.
There are also nonhealth consequences for people who are able to have a billion partners without a concern, and that is the general inability to form lasting, meaningful, close relationships. There are people who have close primary relationships and successful outside ones, but the revolving door set doesn't seem to be able to form any special unions, and no surprise why. So who takes care of you when you get old? Who takes care of kids? Reasons I have no interest in that kind of a lifestyle (that actually IS a lifestyle) and wouldn't even if it were safe, and why I'm an LTR person instead.
There are also nonhealth consequences for people who are able to have a billion partners without a concern, and that is the general inability to form lasting, meaningful, close relationships. There are people who have close primary relationships and successful outside ones, but the revolving door set doesn't seem to be able to form any special unions, and no surprise why. So who takes care of you when you get old? Who takes care of kids? Reasons I have no interest in that kind of a lifestyle (that actually IS a lifestyle) and wouldn't even if it were safe, and why I'm an LTR person instead.
--Ian
I didn't mean to associate you with the stuff I listed, I was just listing things that some people can't comprehend.
Anywho, I generally disagree with everything you said.
It may just be my circle of friends, or it may be the country, but I know, I don't know, a hundred people? that have had sex with 40+ partners, and they've all had/are in LTRs, including my happily married butt. And for what it's worth, I know of about 100 people that don't have any STDs because I had safe sex and got tested as do my friends and lovers. You can't pigeon-hole the kinds of people that don't buy into 'no sex before marriage'. If you think about sex like they told you to in the 50s, sure you'll have trouble ever having a normal life because you've effectively been married and shared your soul or some other nonsense 100 times. Or, take me for example, I believe two non-retarded people can have some well understood and communicated sexual fun with each other in the exact same way two people get drunk together. If you think about it, getting drunk with someone and having sex with someone are an awful lot alike. No one ever goes on about how people that visit bars are psychologically damaged. Well I guess they do, but that's ridiculous and another topic.
I write a lot of very ramble-y posts.
Anywho, I generally disagree with everything you said.

It may just be my circle of friends, or it may be the country, but I know, I don't know, a hundred people? that have had sex with 40+ partners, and they've all had/are in LTRs, including my happily married butt. And for what it's worth, I know of about 100 people that don't have any STDs because I had safe sex and got tested as do my friends and lovers. You can't pigeon-hole the kinds of people that don't buy into 'no sex before marriage'. If you think about sex like they told you to in the 50s, sure you'll have trouble ever having a normal life because you've effectively been married and shared your soul or some other nonsense 100 times. Or, take me for example, I believe two non-retarded people can have some well understood and communicated sexual fun with each other in the exact same way two people get drunk together. If you think about it, getting drunk with someone and having sex with someone are an awful lot alike. No one ever goes on about how people that visit bars are psychologically damaged. Well I guess they do, but that's ridiculous and another topic.
I write a lot of very ramble-y posts.
