A blast from the past

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:37 am

Some of us old enough to remember may enjoy this little side bar of karate history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf-LJQuGc5o

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:32 am

Oye!

One good thing about the MMA ring is that it puts much of the hype to test. Granted it's just a sport - with rules. But much of the mystique thankfully has evaporated.

- Bill

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:59 pm

Actually the one thing I see very clearly here is a fellow taking his youthful passion (the love of martial arts) and milking it for a living. Count Dante wasn't so much a warrior as he was an exercise in marketing of a product.

Being one of the first to market with the goods, he had the ability to be something that nobody after him could get away with.

Go ahead - try making a living with that kind of schtick today. It'll never happen.

But maybe you could try a Billy Mays pitch.

- Bill

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:12 pm

True, but it would seem he started out legit.

John Keehan was the mid-west director of the United States Karate Association (USKA) until 1962. He left that organization in 1964 to form the World Karate Federation. In 1990 a new World Karate Federation unassociated with Keehan's was formed.

In Chicago, Keehan co-promoted America's first full-contact style martial arts tournament at the University of Chicago on July 28, 1963, and hosted many other such tournaments during the 1960s, pairing practitioners of different styles against one another.

Keehan also worked as a hairdresser and had reportedly worked on some of the hair designs for Playboy models of the time.

During the nationwide racial strife of the 1960s, Keehan was one of the first American sensei to openly accept Blacks, Hispanics, and other non-Asian minorities as students.

Here's another blast from the past that reminds me of one or two dojo that I trained at in the 70's. It's funny to think this was what some karate was like at the time. BTW Frank Ryan idolized Count Dante.

http://elitedefensivetactics.blogspot.c ... arted.html

http://elitedefensivetactics.blogspot.c ... ok-my.html

http://elitedefensivetactics.blogspot.c ... ed-my.html

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:17 pm

MikeK wrote:
True, but it would seem he started out legit.

Exactly. But you're missing the point, Mike. Being "legit" is one thing. Making a good living at something through a lifetime is something entirely different.

Separate the man from the myth, Mike. There is George Ruiz, and then there is Counte Dante. Ruiz is fact; Dante is fiction.

One need only follow the torturous career of George Dillman to see what I'm talking about. The barrier to entry of these goods and services wasn't that high. As others scrambled to take a share of the marketplace and revenue decreased (or the desire to earn more increased), one needed constantly to reinvent oneself. When the "legit" part is milked for all it's worth, the hype begins.

Remember "no touch" knockouts? Dillman was into that as well. That was his jump the shark moment in martial arts.

- Bil

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:42 pm

Not missing a point at all Bill, the point I was thinking of was even a guy who is legit could fall down the rabbit hole of marketing and persona. It still happens in MA today though not with capes.

BTW, Ruiz is not Count Juan Raphael Dante but a pro-wrestler. John Timothy Keehan of Chicago was Count Dante. Ruiz is just riffing off of the late John Keehan.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:09 pm

Sorry about the confusion of the original identity. Of course you are correct.

I think we're mostly saying the same thing. Maybe one of the questions to ponder is whether or not the individuals involved begin to believe their own hype. That reminds me just a little of a Ronald Reagan speech where he spoke of an inspiring individual who wasn't real, but rather a character he played in a movie.

Hey, Superman and Batman had capes, Mike! Why NOT Count Dante? And should we be surprised that he advertised in the back of comic books?

- Bill

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:04 pm

No worries Bill, and I'm pretty sure we agree.

Poke a little bit at any trend, in this case martial, and we'll see a few Count Dantes and worse, those who were never legit getting by on their fabricated stories, and even worse again, those who eventually buy into their fabricated stories. Some of this stems from simple marketing gone wrong, while other times it's someone trying to pull a fast one. The sad one is the guy who falls into it almost accidentally and then can't separate himself from the hype.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:04 pm

Here's the original comic book ad.

John Keehan was indeed an interesting character, and appears to have been a legitimate force in martial arts in his early days.

He's credited with having opened the doors to non-Asian racial minorities, and started some of the first full contact martial tournaments.

This sad story reminds me a bit of Joe Shuster - co-creator of Superman. He was penniless in his latter years, and gravitated to a shadier rendition of Lois and Clark.

Tough to keep that superstar thing going on the straight and narrow I guess...

- Bill

Ted Dinwiddie · Post by **Ted Dinwiddie** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:35 pm

Funny reminiscence. But it was about 1971-2 that I first met Ray Berry. He was my 6th-grade teacher. He did a presentation/demonstration on Karate for our class that forever demythologized it and yet made it all the more awesome. I was in college before I found a suitable sensei.

. Of course, it was Ray Berry.