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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:30 pm 
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The enlightenment factor for enlightenment in the before period ,was it present ,or is it present .

This is very important .

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:57 am 
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maxwell ainley wrote:
The enlightenment factor for enlightenment in the before period ,was it present ,or is it present .

This is very important .



Actually there are seven factors of Enlightenment ,listed by the Budda .

"Herein, monks ,when the Enlightenment -factor of is present in him a monk knows,"The enlightenment factor of mindfullness is in me';"

Roughly mindfull-ness is really attention ,and without this there will be no enlightenment ,also it is the first factor of the seven factors .

Regardless of whats going on in your life ,this would be really no 1 in all you do ,you may have to conceal it from folk ,but it should be present in you ,with the first factor present [attention] everyone as some sort of attention present in fits and starts ,but here we need to develop one specific type of attention [wise attention ]in contrast to unwise attention

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:06 am 
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Wise attention .


We can have attention in various durations of time involvement ,then I lose my attention ,this is very common in life .
In situations of learning a teacher would encounter the above problem ,but a person now reflecting upon this fact and taking some responsibilty upon this problem ,would now engage [wise] in thought ,and we could not really call the person wise in a holistic sense ,but we would maybe see some wisdom present .

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:37 am 
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So I have after ex amount of time ,taken some responsibility for my attention.

Another thing that could be classified as wise would be to be thorough in my use of attention ,I am really starting to apply myself to this ,but encounter difficulties ,also you would think attempting to engage the wise in attention would take one away from difficulties , yet I go headfirst into them ,so it follows a characteristic of wise needs to be employed ,termed to " Cut Off " .

To cut off defilements that hinder attention .

To live in a world were attention is constantly worked at is wise ,its opposite is to only employ attention were it suits me .

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:26 am 
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To cut of defilements ,makes sense ,even though the feeling /thought for Enlightenment is present ,it must not interfere ,or become a defilement by carrying one away into speculation etc.

The idea of enlightenment is the main driver ,but attention needs to be on the road ,in other words I can't slip away into to day dreams about the subject ,so its wise to cut off these defilements ,and quickly get back to the task in hand .

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:18 am 
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A few things tied within this endeavour ; liberation and no self ,as defilements are cut off.

To cut off will produce its own fruits which are liberating to our attention which is more wise .

We get carried away in our attentions ,they mostly are not lasting ,we take too much on ,and even when the feeling that something is not quite right ,there are excuses to this mode of doing .
We think we have attention ,but mostly its a weak type of attention ,so as we cut off defilements we redirect strength to a principle type of attention .

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Obviously these posts are in the before stage of enlightenment[a satori] in developing an attention that as the strength to carry out and breakthrough .

Ordinary types of attention will not do this ,because they lack the strength on one hand ,and the idea for enlightenment is not present to foster this liberating type of attention .
Looking inside myself periodically I sense /feel this idea for enlightenment ,its interwoven within the fabric of all I do ,my very early recollections of this came and were present ,as I became more aware of my young self ,in the form of a inner question ,that I would not solve until I was 26 ,but prior to this around 18 years old ,I understood my question was tied up within the principle of what became known in the west as Enlightenment .

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:52 am 
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As we see from my own experience, there was a length of time between the early type of inner questioning and its actual solving ex amount of years later on ,my main point here is; "The idea for Enlightenment was present " yet without my development into increased attention ,the idea for enlightenment ,would for me be just another idea amongst many .
Obviously the young idea was in seed form ,but it was present ,plus with age and eventually taking up Sanchin practice attention would now receive that sharper penetrating edge .

With things spiritual ,there is the correct type of penetration attention at work ,that can now go to work with the idea of enlightenment .

We can now understand why Enlightenment will never become a experience ,without the both the idea for, and a penetrating type of attention ,ordinary attention is always lacking in this type of doing,maybe folks could mostly be looking at the whole enlightenment issue from the vantage point of the ordinary, and Enlightenment levels stay quite secure in the rare.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:31 pm 
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pr perhaps we are more like cats chasing our own tails...and thereby finding it more elusive and hard to hold?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Shana Moore wrote:
pr perhaps we are more like cats chasing our own tails...and thereby finding it more elusive and hard to hold?


Shana ,That is true.

Maybe you could elaborate on this elusive approach ?.

I have been very interested for a long time on what ,seems to defeat the seekers intentions ,on the subject of being Enlightened .

Max

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Max,
I'm still on the early path myself, but I'll gladly share my thoughts. I referred to a cat casing its tail because the tail is a part of it..yet usually only seen from the corner of its eye or in fleeting glimpses. The harder the cat chases it the more the tail flees its grasp (while remaining firmly attached to its butt...grin). It's only in unassuming repose that the tail comes into sight and reach..gentle approach and observation see it clearly.

and this same tail is also such a deligtful expression of the cat's inner thoughts & being!

you can learn a lot watching a cat.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Shana , Thanks for your input on a very difficult topic ,the cat pretty much sums up the attempt to grasp on to .

In the before stage we don't know really what Enlightenment is ,other than the glimpses you mention ,I can see why a seeker could try to chase .

Something as been apprehended ,a chase follows .

This is were a return to the task in hand can bring order to slipping out of control via a chase ,the chase is really another form of defilement from getting on with the job of increased attention .

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Nice Topic.

As a younger man, throughout college and young adulthood I sought the answers to questions like these. I read a lot of books, investigated numerous practices and in general indulged my curiosity about spiritual matters. And, I think its important to say, that the search for these answers can be the most fulfilling and fascinating subject of one's lifetime. And, of course, the most elusive and at times frustrating.

I remember as a kid, lying in my bed at night, thinking about the stars, the far-away places, the beautiful mysteries that lay undiscovered and, seemingly, so far away. But now I can say that the answer(s) to the great mystery of enlightenment (or whatever you are looking for) is found in the same place as the question itself.

I won't espouse or endorse any particular path to that answer, like someone mentioned early on in this thread there tends to be varying and sometimes disparate viewpoints and I want to be respectful of all. That said, it seems that all of the world's greatest teachers on this subject pointed to one's self as the source of fulfillment.

An example would be J.C. pointing out that the kingdom of heaven is within you. I'm not a "religious" person, nor do I excel at chapter-and-verse, but I think this particular quote is quite telling. I'm sure there are similar quotes from other religious sources.

At this time in my life, I look inward to find the peace and tranquility that I have always craved. My mind is as far from enlightened as ever! But deep within is a place untouchable by the passage of time and the chaos of the mutable world. I say "thumbs up" to anyone seeking to find freedom from the world whilst still living in the world. Those sane and content individuals (god willing, including myself) can be a good influence to others, and perhaps help them to find what they are looking for as well.

Just my $.02 on a deep subject.

NB

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