Southern Praying Mantis video

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:29 pm

Mike

In science it's generally bad form to have a conclusion and then to reject all data which don't support your conclusion. If you choose to filter your data in such a manner that only people who YOU consider individuals legitimately qualified to be Chinese Martial Artists, well then you can prove whatever you want. But that's not science; that is arguing. God knows we have enough of that BS going on now with global warming... er... climate change.

It's a fair statement to say that China, Japan, and Okinawa each had their own native arts (e.g. Shaolin arts, jiujitsu, tegumi). This is true of Europe and the Americas as well. And over time these arts influenced each other, and very few of these arts were static in nature. I could go into more detail if you wish. For example one of Okinawa's chief industries in the past was trade, which meant that there was a constant travel of individuals back and forth between Okinawa and China. But suffice it to say that the world is a bit more nuanced than the serial timeline you're attempting to construct.

My own martial experience is a good example. And in much of China, Japan, and Okinawa of the past, my experience (mixed martial arts training) was more the norm rather than the exception. I could give you many examples including the training of Uechi Kanbun himself, as well as his teacher. And of course you knew that Kanbun Uechi taught in China for 3 years, right?

You do know of course that Raffi is (among other qualifications) a JKD instructor. Next time he comes to town, you might ask him if Bruce Lee's JKD master was ever influenced by non-Chinese martial arts and artists.

I'm not at all surprised that these discussions tend constantly to come back to the same theme of a very tidy and simplistic human paradigm vs. a more messy reality of the way the world often works. And an underlying assumption in these paradigms is that only certain individuals with the right ethnicity or pedigree are qualified authorities on martial-related matters. It seems to be less like science and art, and more like religion.

Count Orsini-Rosenberg: Italian is the proper language for opera. All educated people agree on that.

***

Mozart: The whole thing is set in a harem, Majesty. In a seraglio.

Count Orsini-Rosenberg: You mean in Turkey?

Mozart: Yes, exactly.

Count Orsini-Rosenberg: Then why especially does it have to be in German?

Mozart: It doesn't, especially. It could be in Turkish if you really want.

- Amadeus

- Bill

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:56 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote:You do know of course that Raffi is (among other qualifications) a JKD instructor. Next time he comes to town, you might ask him if Bruce Lee's JKD master was ever influenced by non-Chinese martial arts and artists.

Who was Bruce Lee's JKD master?

Bill Glasheen wrote:If you choose to filter your data in such a manner that only people who YOU consider individuals legitimately qualified to be Chinese Martial Artists, well then you can prove whatever you want.

It would seem filtering data works both ways. Do you think you do an actual CMA as opposed to a Okinawan style based on a CMA?
I do a "style" that has Ohshima's brand of Shotokan as it's core, but I don't believe that I do SKA style karate. My friend who can make that claim has changed enough of what is taught that I am decoupled from the fine SKA folks. I do not believe that I can not legitimately claim a direct connection.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:02 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote:
You do know of course that Raffi is (among other qualifications) a JKD instructor. Next time he comes to town, you might ask him if Bruce Lee's JKD master was ever influenced by non-Chinese martial arts and artists.

MikeK wrote:
Who was Bruce Lee's JKD master?

I didn't think you would be the one that I'd trip up. Another cup of coffee perhaps?

I made a funny; the winking smiley was a hint. Please go back and re-read.

MikeK wrote:
Bill Glasheen wrote:
If you choose to filter your data in such a manner that only people who YOU consider individuals legitimately qualified to be Chinese Martial Artists, well then you can prove whatever you want.
It would seem filtering data works both ways. Do you think you do an actual CMA as opposed to a Okinawan style based on a CMA?

I am a CMA in the spirit of Shushiwa and his predacessors, as well as Uechi Kanbun and Uechi Kanei. Kanryo Basho put it best.

Kanryo Basho wrote:
Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.

This means I am part of a "live" art. I was taught by many cross-trainers, as was Shushiwa and Kanbun himself. I experiment with my material as they did. Chinese Martial Artists didn't practice the mockingbird style.

There's a very interesting article elsewhere on this site, Mike, that's written by George Mattson. It's about someone doing research so he can practice authentic baseball as Babe Ruth himself played it. It's worth a read. (Hopefully George can provide the link.)

- Bill

P.S. Damn those Yankees!