where is your center?

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where is your center?

Postby Shana Moore » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:11 pm

There is a nice thread with some interesting videos on Glasheen's forum about practicing core movement by taking Sanchin and similar practice down to the floor, here: http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=20538

This got me thinking about moving from the center, which is so very important to power generation and stability. I've been spending lots of time recently practicing moving from my core/center/or one point...great work for the legs and hips! :lol:

During kumite, I've begun to realize that my center will sometime shift outwards...for lack of a better description....to assist me in keeping balance and staying stable/rooted. If you picture your pelvis or slightly above it as your core/center, and a rope attached to it and pulling you forward or back as you move...then if you have to lean back (someone is trying to take your center), that center moves forward before you do. It's not like your body is wrapped around your center at all times as much as it is a movable point attached with a tether to you and moves freely as needed to keep you stable.

I'm finding this hard to put into words, so please feel free to ask questions or share how you view your core placement. I find core placement in stasis is much different than centering or one point focus while moving. It's a fascinating thing to consider as I move and practice......

I would love to hear how you view core placement/center/one point focus. Your thoughts?
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Postby jorvik » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:47 pm

Shana
In Chinese the centre is known as the Tan tien.in Japanese the Tanden.......it is usually associated with a spot about 2 inches below the navel..supposedly the centre of the bodies balance.........this is where the " centreline theory" comes from.......and this occurs both in Chinese and Japanese martial arts.....in chinese arts most notably in Tai-chi and the internal arts ..in Japanese it tends to be the sword arts ( because that's where it's at in JMA)...but also in it's derivatives like jiu jitsu and aikido.............I've explored it in aikido.it tends to be moves where your body moves but your arms and legs are left limp or as sorts of conduits for the energy your body uses.Master Kuroda uses it 8) ....and it looks like nothing...which is it's greatest strength.how do you defeat nothing :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llk3BL_kWKQ

http://radiovideolinks.com/video_1d6xLLliBY4.html
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Postby Shana Moore » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:37 am

Hi Ray..been a bit crazy busy at work,so sorry for delay in responding..just had time to watch the first vid (been wanting to catch the american version of that show!) His lightness in movement is impressive...it does look like he's moving as a unit and extremely stable..thanks for sharing! I thank of the one point..your tandien...as the point a good ballerina leads with when she walks..hips forward..it is a centeredness that adds to their grace, balance, and poise...interesting connection there..hmmmmmm
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Postby Dana Sheets » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:23 pm

tanden is also written dantien.

This article gives a pretty decent overview of Tai chi's take on the use of the dantien in movement.

http://tukylam.freeoda.com/dantian.html

The dantien is considered to be separate from the waist or hips and able to move independently but should be what coordinates the whole body movement.
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Postby jorvik » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:31 pm

one thing that I notice with good internal martial artists, is that they can find the "Sweet Spot". with my Sifu I can grab his hands and grip them as hard as I can and he can effortlessly control me................he has tried to show me this skill....really you have to find that sweet spot and it doesn't involve strength or anything fancy.just really moving to a place where you have more postural strength..............I can't say that this skill directly relates to the "Centre" but in my mind it seems to

I think this guy is pretty good.....................but I may be wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfvvn-yO ... PL&index=3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnfZVDcn ... xt_from=PL
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:11 am

Joseph chen is an excellent practitioner, hell he lives in my home town!
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Postby jorvik » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:20 pm

Have you trained with Him?....I think it would be a great experience :wink:
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Postby AAAhmed46 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:59 am

jorvik wrote:Have you trained with Him?....I think it would be a great experience :wink:


No, but only because i thought Chen no longer lives in Edmonton. Turns out now he still lives in this city, just does mostly private lessons these days and seminars, his students run his regular classes now. When i get bored of the MMA scene(which may be soon) ill start training with him in the near future, though ill have to get some background in the form first, otherwise it would make no sense to pay for a private lesson with no knowledge of tai chi. Two guys that train at the Wilson karate schools used to train with joseph.

I DO plan on remembrance day(i don't know if you guys have that in the states. It's on November 11) to go and train with some pa kua/tai chi guys.

Joseph chen apparently used to come by rick's karate camp(when rick ran it) i really wish i had been a part of his school when he had the camps with joseph.

Whats scary is that, as good as Joseph is, apparently there are guys in china who are even better. Thats pretty scary.
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Postby jorvik » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:36 pm

I think with Tai-Chi you can honestly get better and better with time..............but the problem is finding a decent teacher. A thing called the classical disconnect operates very strongly here, a lot of folks do Tai-Chi because it looks cool, spiritual etc.............so it becomes the province of ageing hippies, middle aged folks who want to look cool etc.........when in reality it is a devastating martial art.....but folks have forgotten what it was originally developed for and just do it as a game. It's difficult enough finding aTai Chi club where they know the applications of the forms....finding someone who is proficient in the fighting applications is even harder

It's interesting to speculate on the impact some teachers have.....I was speaking to my friend about this and he mentioned Wong-Sheung Leung......and said that he had been a great teacher, although mostly remembered as a great fighter.and he mentioned a few of the people wong taught.
Bruce Lee .........here is a clip of Tommy Carruthers. rated as one of the best JKD'ers in the world

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6JdzCbXFE

Sifu Wan Kam Leung


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxp4SJt7V7M&NR=1

and the "chunner" everyone is talking about Gary Lam....ex Thai Boxer, returned to wing Chun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84bxXXhnB_I

it's interesting to me that these guys all learned from the same source and then developed on their own.they all have some of the core attributes.

now with Tai-chi you have also different styles but similarly they all have the same core.they all have " Crane spreads it's wings" Two winds blow ears, play the guitar etc.but they apply them in different ways, or they have more or less importance.....and sadly sometimes, without good instruction the actual knowledge is lost.and it just ends up as kickboxing :cry: ...in the final say all these arts are about is beating a younger,faster,stronger opponent.....and obviously to do this you can't relay on youth, strength or speed.not even a different type of strength or speed e.g. powerlifters and Thai Boxers are both strong and fast but in different ways


I think the shaolin was the real cradle for all this knowledge............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT3a6b11 ... re=related

they had throws and locks as well as strikes
And as Chinese people grow up they are introduced to these arts...so from a very early age they hear of old masters who are still capable of holding their own at an advanced age........and with that skill comes a certain type of mindset that doesn't promote or encourage violence.
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