One solution to fragile nigiri game

[Bill Glasheen]

We've had a few conversations on my forum on the importance of Okinawa jar training in learning Kanbun's style of martial art. Unless you're doing some equivalent of this training, it's difficult to "get" what all these "Uechi pointy things" (TM) are about. (My expression) Actually there's a yang (poke) and a yin (grab) to them. But again... you need to wake the body up and program the synapses before the epiphany strikes.

I've bought the very fragile jars, and have a number of them in my basement. I don't take them to the dojo because just looking at them the wrong way will cause them to break. (Dog broke the last one, rendering a pair unusable.) I've discussed how certain kinds of dumbbells can be used for this kind of training, and that's pretty much how I do it in my dojo today. If you have a recessed label on the dumbbell, you have all the lip you need for a boshiken thumb grab.



It's not perfect, but it's good enough. And then after I'm done training the class with the Sanchin-jar-like training, I can switch over to plyometric work like clean-and-jerks.

Someone recently sent me an unsolicited plug which appears to get around one of the major problems with the traditional jars.

Unlike standard Sanchin jars from Okinawa that are made from a red clay and can easily shatter if dropped, ours are made from a mixture of poly resin and granite dust. We wouldn't call them unbreakable but they are very shatter resistant we've dropped them from as high as four feet up onto a concrete floor without damage.

OK, so you have my attention.

Here's the link, and the free plug you were looking for.

Sanchin Jars
(nigiri-game)

This gentleman has been a student of Gordi Breyette (a.k.a. Seizan), and has continued his long-term relationship with Takamiyagi Shigeru. I once spent a week working with Mr. Takamiyagi on Thompson Island (George's camp, circa 1983). I enjoyed my time with him, as he's somewhat of an "out of the box" Uechi style thinker. In this way we see eye-to-eye. I've subsequently had several students train with him while touring Okinawa - either as part of a JET program or as part of the military.

These are quite pricey. But if they do the job, it isn't much more expensive than a top-rated gi. Maybe I'll ask "Santa" to get me a pair. If that works out, I'll report on how they work.





- Bill

[Josann]

Another low cost alternative is to fill up those plastic containers that protein powder comes in with either sand or water. They work great and its easy to change the weight as you need to. The lid of the jar is the perfect size and since its plastic, dropping it is not a big deal.

[Bill Glasheen]

Josann

I have a collection of those very jars. It is indeed a very low cost alternative - particularly if you already consume the stuff.





The perfect device is all about the lip. The closer you get to something like the nigiri game jars, the better.



It really doesn't matter what's on the other end of that lip.



- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

I know Shelby Kenney and can vouch for him personally and as a business man. He's put a lot of thought into making a fine product. I look forward to adding his jars to our dojo.

-Dana

[NEB]

My teacher and I used plastic buckets, maybe a two gallon capacity. We filled them with cement, and fashioned a gripping handle on the top (also out of cement).

The end result was something that was pretty much too heavy for initial use, so we started to chisel them down. That lasted until one of the so-called handles cracked and fell off. Lots of work down the drain. Next time we will start with something like the protein powder jars and go from there.

The cement is great due to its strength and weight (as long as you don't go crazy!).

nb

[Dana Sheets]

The jars well suited for a number of partner exercises that allow both participants to develop sanchin sensitivity and coordination that you can't really do with hand weights, the ginormous sanchin stones, or super-heavy coffee cans filled with cement.

I've seen jar-based partner exercises demonstrated by Master Toyama, Master Shinjo, and some in of the ones shown using poles or reeds in GEM's red book I've also seen performed with jars.

One of the most sophisticated involves performing a circular motions away from an towards the body with the jar held out in front of both people--kind of like the figure on the right side of this image:


(note: the jar is better than the medicine ball because both people can put their hands in relatively the same place)

Initially the second person "follows" the first person to feel for and give feedback about coordination of the whole body and to remark if the shoulders lift out of place, the posture is compromised, or the core is disengaged. Eventually, when both partners can be consistent, light resistance can be added. Light resistance that can disappear at any moment (kind of link how GEM once described arm rubbing) to check to see if one partner is depending on the resistance or simply channeling it through their stance. If you give too much resistance, then it just becomes a shoulder and arm shoving match...which can be fun to play but doesn't do a darn thing for developing karate.

[Dana Sheets]

Or...how 'bout one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyqv2ZGf ... re=related

The note says it weights 560kg. 560 kilograms = 1,234.58867 pounds
...can't move that with your bicep.

[MikeK]

This weight could be interesting as a replacement for a nigiri-game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S3C4AC908w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpXPCJUC2Kw

[Bill Glasheen]

This weight could be interesting as a replacement for a nigiri-game.

So... does that explain why my muscles started getting bigger when puberty hit?



It is true that the unique benefit of the nigiri game for Uechi Ryu is the grip you use while training with them. But that grip? I mastered that one years ago.

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

I really don't think the major goal of jar training is to train the grip. A strong grip is a secondary benefit to the training. The primary benefits are core development and control, whole body connection sensation and development, and an initiation to understanding the use of the breath while the body is supporting additional load. (Besides the mental focus and tenacity that is developed if the training is continued to the point where the jars are quite heavy.)

I particularly enjoy doing jar training while wearing a weight vest for the extra demand on the core.

[robb buckland]

"
The note says it weights 560kg. 560 kilograms = 1,234.58867 pounds
...can't move that with your bicep."
_________________


Wow push hands squared !!!!

[Bill Glasheen]

I really don't think the major goal of jar training is to train the grip. A strong grip is a secondary benefit to the training. The primary benefits are core development and control, whole body connection sensation and development, and an initiation to understanding the use of the breath while the body is supporting additional load. (Besides the mental focus and tenacity that is developed if the training is continued to the point where the jars are quite heavy.)

Dana

If you don't do other kinds of weight training, then this is what comes to you as the primary benefit.

Personally I've been weight training since 1966 (46 years) when my parents bought me my Sears Ted Williams weight set for Christmas. I subsequently got very good instruction at Phillips Exeter in 1970, and even more instruction from the UVa strength coach (and world heavyweight powerlifting champion) in 1983. Let's just say I've been at this thing for a very long time.

I've observed Uechi Ryu practiced in the United states since 1974, and saw nothing but contempt for the salient hand techniques of the system. I've even been ridiculed online here by armchair "experts" in physiology who claim you can't use "Uechi pointy things" when experiencing the Survival Stress Reflex.

The thing is, I really never "got" the Uechi that Ryuko Tomoyose advocated until I started doing certain key exercises. One is a kind of "tripod" pushup that I learned from an Okinawan pangainoon instructor. (Difficult but not impossible to do. Difficult to explain online.) And the other was doing these kinds of boshiken grab exercises.

Sure, sure, there are myriad benefits to doing jar training. I take advantage of all of them. But from my experience with weight training (not bodybuilding), I've found other better ways to accomplish what you're talking about.

The unique benefit of jar training FOR ME is that it woke my Uechi hands up. It isn't that it makes your hands and fingers stronger per se. Other things can do that as well or better. It's that you are grabbing the jars with a classic Uechi boshiken hand WHILE doing Sanchin stuff. Frankly the amount of weight I can hold (and I've seen Narahiro Shinjo hold) with jars doesn't do squat for my core. Olympic-style weight training is much better. But what it does is make me hold my "Uechi hands" while doing other things.

I try to explain what pangainoon means to my students. To me it isn't the literal half hard, half soft. That gets into all the woo woo stuff that does nothing for me and doesn't translate well to my students. I explain that the best metaphor for it is patting your head and rubbing your tummy. Our style is full of places where you have to do two very different things at the same time, and there is a great danger for cross-talk or contamination of one activity into the next. Much of Sanchin study and much of the style is about (for instance) maintaining the firmness of a proper shoken while completely relaxing the muscles antagonistic to an arm extension.

This awakening has only happened to me in recent years since I got bored with certain kinds of training and started experimenting. And now that I've done the jars (and 12-packs of Diet Dew, and dumbbells held sidewards, etc., etc.), my students hate me. I torture them with ease as I grab and poke all over their bodies. My hands and wrists really aren't all that much stronger. But my synaptic patterns (muscle memory) is such that my hands now "get" what Ryuko Tomoyose preached was the unique advantage of what we do.

The other unique benefit of jar training is that it strengthens the fingers, hands, and wrists (muscles and tendons) while elongating rather than compressing joints that are prone to osteoarthritis with age. The joint pulling preserves the articular cartilage surfaces of those joints while building the structures around them. That epiphany hit me while having a discussion with a rock climber who also was a physician.

Just my opinion, Dana.

I do other cool things with the jars too - things other than walking in Sanchin. But again, it's about maintaining that special grip while I do those activities. I'm finding many muscle contraction/relaxation patterns that are worth programming into my body.

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

All good points.

Frankly the amount of weight I can hold (and I've seen Narahiro Shinjo hold) with jars doesn't do squat for my core.

Just curious...have you done the jar training with fully weighted jars?

My understanding is that the typical Okinawan gripping jar (the size that comes to just above your knees), when filled properly, weighted in around 25-30 kilos or 55-65 pounds. So two filled jars of 55-65 lbs each would be around 110-130 lbs held out in front of the body at the end of the arms. That's just around over my overall body weight and certainly more than I can manage at the moment. My goal is to make it to the point where I can use my jars completely filled. At the moment the jars weight about 12 pounds each because I refuse to go past that weight until I can keep both my core and my breathing under control.

Whenever I've tried to push the weight up too quickly I can feel my shoulders tighten up and the overall benefits of the training quickly diminish.

Note bene: I can hold much more weight if I hold the jars at my side next to my hips - but that isn't proper form for the jar training as I understand it.

[Bill Glasheen]

My understanding is that the typical Okinawan gripping jar (the size that comes to just above your knees), when filled properly, weighted in around 25-30 kilos or 55-65 pounds. So two filled jars of 55-65 lbs each would be around 110-130 lbs held out in front of the body at the end of the arms.

First... I can do more weight than that - even while using dumbbells - in my clean-and-jerks. And that's one of the best whole-body and core exercises I know of.

Second... My fingers/thumb give out in the jar exercises before I can get near what I can do in my clean-and-jerks.

Third... If some Okinawan want to show me that he can do front raises to shoulder level with 65-pound nigiri game (while gripping with a boshiken), then I want to see it. Walking in Sanchin? Not nearly as difficult.

Check out The Discovery Channel special on martial arts with Shinjo Narahiro doing a series of such lifts (front raises, cross-body front raises, etc.). He's using somewhere around 45 pounds, which is "believable" for those exercises. In fact it's way more than respectable if someone was using a normal dumbbell grip, and not letting the shoulders drift up.

- Bill

P.S. I have long arms, and I am not Popeye. In other words, I am not the short-armed (short lever arm) Nakahodo Sensei with the crazy forearms. He is a genetic freak. That doesn't count.

[Bill Glasheen]

I don't know if they got it...I did...and you are truly incorrigible!

Shhhh!!!!



- Bill