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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:55 am 
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GEM made a few good points.. And for the record I would never tell anyone to try some of this unless properly trained..What does properly trained mean in this situation? Probably around 10 years of good training until you can even think about training some one else..
My point of showing the differences is this.. The guy from the first video had about a year (maybe a little less of training) and came back to develop his own style. I can see how some of these tricks are done, and they are just that tricks and optical illusion. If they weren't these people would be hurt terribly.
Gushi Sensei however had the prerequisite training and knowledge to train these guys to Superhuman type toughness.. Not over night or in 2 weeks at a seminar....The main difference that I see, and this is my opinion, doesn't have to be yours, that's cool too..Is that one is training people in something he knows to be relatively safe, but good for overall strength-conditioning-mental conditioning- challenge of their skills... Doesn't mean anyone needs to aspire to this, nor does it mean anyone is less of a human being or friend because they don't wish to ever walk into a Dojo at all.. Different strokes , different folks..
All up to what the person wants to achieve... Personally, I'm a Traditionalist.. I believe that I myself have many more things just to learn from Uechi Ryu that there really is no reason to look somewhere else as it will only hurt my training..I have never seen a prepared Master break his fingers on a strike, but I have seen a yon kyu have his finger snapped of because he hadn't spent enough time with the Jars, inter tubes, or push ups,, I do believe like GEM that Kata is definitely the most important training in the Dojo.. But if the kamai isn't even correct??? Just looking for hospital bills..Most people I see performing Uechi Katas with their fingers spread and thumb dangling any where. This is how the young man's finger was torn off.


Last edited by Stevie B on Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:18 am 
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Hey, I'm just glad there are guys like Gushi Sensei and a few others out here that want to spend the time, effort, and keep up what our Senseis taught us, rather than have it disappear.. And look, if someone doesn't want to learn the stuff and only do Katas that is fine. I wouldn't teach a surgeon to break boards with his fingertips and I would never let a kid try to break even a small board until they were up in age ( I have a 17 year old student now that is larger than me) but I won't allow him to break yet as he is still developing..
The way I look at it is sort of like how Tosh Itokazu Sensei used to say it.."In a fight you're going to get hit, if one guy gets hurt from the hit he's done". But I definitely think that there is a proper way to check Sanchin and condition to where it is beneficial and not detrimental .


Last edited by Stevie B on Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:48 am 
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I'm sitting here hurting just watching this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V81r1s31 ... re=related

This is what I mean about proper conditioning rather than improper.. Why not condition your forearms to the point that you can block someone's shin coming in and they won't want to kick any more? As Van points out in his comments about self defense mindset... Just better to be prepared than not.. In the street can this guy get into what ever trance he puts himself into? Forget doing that..I would rather block and hit back.. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Quote:
In the street can this guy get into what ever trance he puts himself into? Forget doing that. I would rather block and hit back...


I agree, that is the question...can these guys take such punishment on the street where we are likely to face multiple opponents' attacks_ probably armed with blunt or edged weapons? How about grappling …choke holds…etc.?

Maybe so, but I haven't read any claims of this, and possibly I am missing something here. I wish someone in the juko-kai system would get on and discuss these questions…it would be much appreciated.

And another problem I see is the 'operant conditioning' i.e., imprinting upon the SNS that it's OK to stand there and take shots as opposed to evade and redirect as the best way to deal with an attack?

I'll go even one better...which I firmly believe is built into our _ Uechi katas...PRE-EMPTION...of an attack you sense coming, like the Samurais of yore were noted for.

And precisely talking from experience...once when attacked by multiple opponents with blunt weapons...[I took the initiative and almost killed one of them] ...the other most recent when Rabesa and I came under assault years back at one of our summer camps in Beverly by some punks on drugs.

Still, what is intriguing here is the ability of these people to take such devastating shots with impunity.

Has the medical profession ever gotten into this question in the way of opinions?

Bill, if you are reading this...have you covered this before?

Our conditioning in Uechi is by all means mandatory for all the reasons which have been outlined.

It is the outlandish shime that makes no sense.


A dear friend of mine...a Marine WW2 Iwo Jima hero_
gave permission to one of his students to visit Okinawa while on leave from serving in Iraq [military intelligence]_

Great student, excellent practitioner all the way around, and well trained.

Before leaving the island, he is asked to test, and abused in shime, knocked to the ground from kicks in the fold of the knees, and badly bruised all around in a bad way before shipping back to Iraq to fight a war.

*Correction: I misunderstood....The student in Iraq who visited Okinawa and was tested..... WAS NOT knocked down and felt although the Sanchin test was VERY hard he was prepared and in no way felt abused or taken advantage of. He further related that all outside candidates were tested about the same and that the Okinawan candidates were tested even harder.

However the incident I related above did in fact occur...but to a different person/different location.

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Last edited by Van Canna on Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Unacceptable..
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:15 pm 
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I do know that it's not going by unnoticed by some other Seniors on Island, that's really all I can say here.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:09 pm 
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"........the other most recent when Rabesa and I came under assault years back at one of our summer camps in Beverly by some punks on drugs......" Van

We talked of that at dinner with Bridget and Jimmy.......... :D That was the year of my first Summerfest....... :lol: (Just a couple of 'tired ole' Seniors :roll: ).....This Uechi stuff'll never work...... :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:47 am 
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They said although they regrettably can't send a person to talk to you (as their voices are all too highly pitched for some reason) they do wish to send one of their highest Masters as soon as he gets out of undisclosed surgery....In the meantime they asked me to post their newest promotional clip.. Enjoy!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=895_Z2fCqhs

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:50 am 
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:rofl:

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 Post subject: Sanchin Shime
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:28 am 
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I'm late getting into this thread but anyone who know me knows "I like a hard test". The operative quote is "I like a hard test". For about four years I performed Sanchin with Kyohide Shinjo at Koshukais. Most people thought I had a screw or two loose. I think Steve B thought I was nuts like the rest. He can relate a "funny" story about my first test with Shinjo Sensei if he likes. But my training with Itokazu Sensei readied me for that. For those who ever trained with him it was an eye opening experience. I have had students that felt cheated if they were not tested hard but they were the exception. Just as those who love to compete and are driven to fight in the ring. I fought in the ring and trained at a Kick Boxing School on occaision to see what it felt like to get hit at random.

Different strokes for different goals. In no way does it lesson the individual who loves Uechi Ryu for health and fitness desires. As long as we offer good instuction and good techinique we are doing our job.

In 1986 I had several hard tests (not Really) by a, here, unamed Sensei. Some of you can probably guess. Frustrated, I think, he continually struck my kidney area with his finger tips. Later when I went to Senaga Sensei's Dojo to train, he was angry and kept saying Warui Des Yo. He even showed his senior students who all shook their heads. He then gave me a herbal medicine and stated that testing this way was foolish and dangerous. The medicine by the way cleared up the brusing in a couple of days.

My training with Sensei Itokazu was at first severe. I guess I was one of his projects. But not all the Dans got this treatment. Maybe he recognized the Polish and Greek stubborness. But because of this choice "I" made, I can and could walk into any Okinawan Dojo and hold my own. As the immortal Walter Brennan used to say on The Guns of Will Sonnet "no brag-just fact. How's that for dating myself.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:17 pm 
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The first time I ever saw Shinjo Sensei was at the Koshukai in 1991 in Largo, FL.. During the Masters Demonstration, Master Rick Potrekus comes out with Shinjo Sensei for Sanchin Shime.. So we are all watching intently as Shinjo Sensei just slams Rick with just an unbelievably hard strike to the abs.. I'm watching this, and I see Rick Sensei start moving his right hand like C'mon give me more... :lol:
I don't know what he was thinking.. Man , I don't think I have ever seen such a hard test.. It was brutal!!!
Years later I was sitting in my Bar with Peter Kellogg one night.. We were talking about training and stuff.. He started talking about that Koshukai.. All he said was that Rick must have been the craziest guy he ever knew, because nobody he had ever met had actually gotten hit by Shinjo like that and actually asked for more.. They were thinking about taking RICK sensei to the looney bin, but he walked away like nothing happened, so all good :lol:


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