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 Post subject: Yep.. Exactly my point..
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:54 am 
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There are always unforeseen in the equation... The wife's response to the force needed to disengage this idiot was unforeseen.. Regardless of whether right or wrong.. Still always some price to pay..Even though it was other guy doing something way out of line.. Girls just don't see that in their mathematics... :cry:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:39 am 
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Stevie B wrote:
Girls just don't see that in their mathematics... :cry:


Lots of stuff isn't in the other gender's math. Like when you marry them (I've been married 24 years), they think you'll never look at another woman. Yeah, right. Look, I'm married, not dead, you know?

Anyway, sounds to me like you handled it great.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:45 am 
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True enough.

I have had a few cases where similar situations arose out of house parties, where an injured guest brought suit against the homeowner [deep pockets] alleging over-serving of liquor as the cause of the violence upon him.

Out of curiosity, who called the police and why?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:25 am 
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She pretty much witnessed the whole thing, and I think she just wanted him out of there..And you know the rest..


Last edited by Stevie B on Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:20 pm 
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Apparently he must be on Steroids and possibly some other type of drugs... He had my wife's cousin basically held hostage in a room in the house we were having a party at. When my wife went to get her, he tried to hold her in as well...


Did the reason for this 'hostage taking' become clear at some point? What was the trigger for that action?

Was this guy a jealous freak trying to separate his girl from attention at the party?

Problem with such emotionally disturbed persons [EDP] is their unpredictability.

Years back, I handled a case with an employee who sustained a work injury.

We placed him on worker's compensation benefits…then after a while…doctors determined he was fit to return to work…but he wouldn't…we had no choice but to stop compensation checks in according with State law…at that time he made some threats against our office personnel.


I told the office manager to implement some security measures at the office, he scoffed at the suggestion saying we should not be worried about disgruntled would be 'tough guys' ….OK.

A week later, this guy, killed his wife, his four children and then himself.

He could have well decided to take out the entire office staff at the same time.

Afterwards the office manager, in a cold sweat, began to make arrangements for improved security.

We should never become complacent when dealing with EDPs_

I have dozens of stories to tell on this subject matter.

Sgt Miller relates that he has seen EDPs on stimulants screaming, pleading and demanding for someone to come close to kill…"so we can all die together"

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Van


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:14 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
Was this guy a jealous freak trying to separate his girl from attention at the party?

Problem with such emotionally disturbed persons [EDP] is their unpredictability.


From watching numerous homicide documentaries, I've gathered that women in relationships with disturbed and abusive males need to be careful about how they leave that relationship. I'm no expert, but once they become aware that the guy is disturbed and abusive, they should stop pretending they are dealing with a normal person, appreciate that they are possibly in grave danger, and act accordingly--more like they are escaping from a kidnapper than leaving a normal relationship. I don't know how many cases I've heard of where the woman made their intention of leaving known before leaving.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:19 am 
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Mike
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From watching numerous homicide documentaries, I've gathered that women in relationships with disturbed and abusive males need to be careful about how they leave that relationship. I'm no expert, but once they become aware that the guy is disturbed and abusive, they should stop pretending they are dealing with a normal person, appreciate that they are possibly in grave danger, and act accordingly--more like they are escaping from a kidnapper than leaving a normal relationship. I don't know how many cases I've heard of where the woman made their intention of leaving known before leaving.


A serious problem as you point out, Mike. This should be of interest
Quote:
Studies have shown that persons with certain attitudes, who have certain social habits or who come from certain backgrounds are prone to being wife abusers. The following are some of the predictors:

1. A man who witnessed his father physically abuse his mother. The message the incident conveys to a boy is that it is okay to settle marital discord with fisticuffs. A study found 80 to 85 per cent of men who physically abuse their wives saw their father abusing their mother. A childhood friend of mine came from a background where the father abused his mother physically repeatedly. When he got married, he was very physically abusive to his wife and this made his marriage break irretrievably.

2. An emotionally turbulent courtship. Courtship is usually a period when partners put up their best behavior in order to impress each other. A man who is physically, verbally or emotionally abusive during courtship and who failed to improve on his emotional control before marriage may turn out to be a wife-abuser after marriage when under stress.

3. A man that lacks social skills. Friendship is at the heart of marriage and without adequate social skills; such an intimate relationship will degenerate in to abuse of one form or the other. A man with a poor record of sustaining friendship cannot develop social skills over night after marriage. Marriage actually puts to test the social skills you have acquired up to that time in life. Show me a man who has very few friends at home, church, work place and school and I can predict his marriage will be filled with social challenges. A person who has poor social skills often resort to violence to make his point rather than using amicable discussion or dialogue to settle differences.

4. A man that has imbibed violence as his method of dealing with anger and stress. Old habits die hard; a person who can quarrel or fight at the slightest provocation lacks emotional control. Marriage will be very challenging for such a person who lacks emotional control because the wife is a human being who will have her own share of imperfections. A man who approves of violence as a means of resolving issues will be abusive in marriage; such a man would also be violent towards pets.

5. A man who was physically abused as a child. Physically abused persons who have not dealt with their hurts go through life with subterranean anger which can be unleashed against an innocent spouse. Such a man will nurture feelings of anger and inferiority and would be quick to read negative meanings to innocent acts of his wife; this can result in frequent fights.


This is so true. Wife beaters are for the most part, very insecure persons harboring feelings of inferiority.

One thing is surely to happen…if ever prosecuted for domestic violence…the fact that the wife beater is a martial artist…will be used against him by a prosecutor to show that he had an 'affinity' for violence….martial arts 'painted' as 'the pursuit of violence' _by the prosecution.

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 Post subject: Control issues...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:52 am 
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I think maybe he has control issues.. I really don't want to speculate on his emotional conditions as I don't know him( nor want to) very much.. But I agree with you 100 % Van.. The concern is now more what's lurking in the shadows for us..Who knows what this nut will do next? I did see something that they are the most dangerous right after a breakup.. So her cousin has been staying with her Aunt and Uncle..I am around my wife right now 24/7 and plan to maintain that level of discretion for at least a couple of weeks.. He really doesn't know to much about where we live, work and such.. But in today's world it's pretty easy to find out unfortunately..So like I said, it would have been nice if it had just ended there.. But there is always the next day..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Stevie B.
Quote:
The concern is now more what's lurking in the shadows for us..


True enough...we never know when an emotionally disturbed person + liquor and drugs....may totally lose it and come looking for us for payback.

Stevie...I would also suggest that you delete what you wrote about what you did to him and words he may find belittling him on this forum. He may further become inflamed.

It is also best to never write too much detail on what occurred in a personal fight in an open forum...since it will be used against you by a prosecutor in case things get to that point down the line...should you placed in a position to have to take further action here to defend yourself or your wife.

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 Post subject: OK.. Good advice
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:29 pm 
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I took it.. But I'm seriously not concerned about anyone prosecuting me.. If anything this guy must have commuted at least 2 felonies..Why the Cops didn't arrest him on the spot is beyond me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:00 pm 
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It is always best not to tempt the 'devil'...if you should ever get to the point of having to 'take care of business' with this guy in the future...you don't know how things would look to some smart ass prosecutor trying to make a name for himself.

Never make his job easy...he would be combing the web to try and find something to use against you.


Nobody is to be trusted...not even the cops...why did they not arrest him is a good question.

Did anyone press a complaint against him? If not _the police may not have much to go on _ to place him under arrest.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:46 pm 
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I knew you would have better insight on the aftermath..
The police did take written statements from myself, my wife, her cousin, the homeowner's wife and the guy.. They said they didn't expect much to happen, but would have to forward to the prosecutor..
As for me, I sort of feel a bit lucky that I wasn't hurt and no one else really was.. The guy outwieghs me by a easy 40 lbs of muscle and stands at least 6'3" which is about 2 inches higher that me.. Plus he is about half my age..So the reality is that if he had of landed just one of those hits, I could be a lot worse off( which is one reason the wife was so upset)..
The only real marks on any one was on his shin where we "bumped" shins... But as for the statements I know that they were all but his , pretty much the same as mine.
I hope that I don't ever run into this guy again, but you never know.. But then again, I refuse to be afraid to walk out and get the paper. I guess I could go get my concealed permit, but that sort of seems like an overkill to me.. We haven't heard anything else and her cousin said he hasn't bothered her, so I'm hoping it will sort of fade away and he'll go on his merry way.. But you never know I guess.
You would think he would have been arrested for false imprisonment and assault at least, but like I said he really didn't touch anyone, just sort of had his body in the way..And when he went to hit me I moved, so luckily he never made contact..
What do you think I should do as far as avoiding contact with this person? Your advice is greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:15 pm 
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The police did take written statements from myself, my wife, her cousin, the homeowner's wife and the guy..


I would go to the police station today and ask for a copy of the police report and copies of your statement and your wife's. These documents are discoverable and would be available to anyone with an interest in the case.
You want to know exactly what you told the police and how the police report would look from entries by police officers.
Quote:
You would think he would have been arrested for false imprisonment and assault at least, but like I said he really didn't touch anyone, just sort of had his body in the way.


~~

Quote:
They said they didn't expect much to happen, but would have to forward to the prosecutor..


I don't think the police had much to go on to make an arrest.

What did the homeowner's wife say to the police when she called them? You mentioned she wanted him out of there.

Did she file a complaint against him? Is she afraid to do that for fear of retribution?

Was alcohol served by the home owner at the party? What was being served? Did anyone take their own drinks with them at the party?

How long had you and or the guy been at the party before the incident?

What activities of the guy did you observe before the incident?

Had either you or the guy consumed liquor on the premises?

Had you had any interaction/conversations with him before the incident?

Any witnesses?

Did they give any statements to the police?
Quote:
I hope that I don't ever run into this guy again, but you never know.. But then again, I refuse to be afraid to walk out and get the paper. I guess I could go get my concealed permit, but that sort of seems like an overkill to me.. We haven't heard anything else and her cousin said he hasn't bothered her, so I'm hoping it will sort of fade away and he'll go on his merry way.. But you never know I guess.


You never know is right.

What does this guy do for a living?

Is he a 'gangbanger?

Has he been to prison before?

Can you get a police history of any previous arrests or trouble he has been involved in previously? Police should be able to release this information to you.

Does he know where you work, where you live, where your dojo is?

Does he have any 'friends' he can call upon to 'payback'?

What security set up do you have at the dojo for you and your students?

Is it possible for this guy to set up an ambush at your dojo?

[Years back, in Brockton…some punk took a shot at Bob Bethoney through the front glass door of his dojo as he was about to exit and close up. The 9mm bullet missed him and hit the wall at an angle, precisely at the spot where I would have been walking along side Bob…on a Monday night where I was helping him teach class.]

I wouldn't go so far as carrying a gun at this juncture…should anything happen…some smart ass prosecutor would try to make you look like you got that gun with the intent to use it.

Possibly a good OC pepper spray weapon like this:

http://tweetfeed.com/halloweenshoes/buy ... nd-fishing

Might be useful.

But that's your call.

The problem I foresee is that possibly but not for certain, this guy's self image has been tainted by what happened and he may harbor some feelings of pay back to restore his 'self worth' _a possibility fueled by his use of steroids and drugs that can be mind altering.
Quote:
What do you think I should do as far as avoiding contact with this person? Your advice is greatly appreciated.


Best advice is to live in a heightened state of 'condition yellow' and avoid all activities where you will be alone anywhere in order to avoid an ambush.

Don't leave the dojo at night all by yourself…always have someone with you.

Find out what kind of car he drives and keep a constant lookout to be sure you are not being followed.

Be sure your house perimeter is secure…in a hassle with a punk years back…[a friend of mine had thrown out a guy who showed up drunk at a party in his house…he was a Vietnam vet] this guy tried to set his house on fire in the middle of the night.

If you spot this guy and get the feeling he is stalking you…be sure to put the police on notice…so that if anything happens…you can show that you acted reasonably.

The problem is that if it comes to another confrontation, he may be armed, and you may have to wait to react to what he may do instead of pre-empting him. Reason being that you are already on record with the police and any further problems with this guy might be misconstrued all around.

It really s*ucks…

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