Now and then I need to clarify things

[Bill Glasheen]

On another thread related to the Arizona shootings, Ian and I got into a lengthy discussion. I believe the discussion had ended for a while. Anyway... Then we get this.

Are you all so brilliant that you are all insane?!? Because that's exactly what you all sound like..
This is a Forum to help discuss veiws about Karate Do.. You guys have turned it into a Circus,,,

Forrest Gump was Stupid... But at least he was funny... You guys are no Forrest Gump..

This was so over the top that I slept on it a day. And now I'm back.

Ad hominems aside...

This is a Forum to help discuss veiws about Karate Do.. You guys have turned it into a Circus,,,

Really? Perhaps you failed to read the Index page. Let me help you.

Bill's forum was the first! All subjects are welcome. Participation by all encouraged.

And just for clarification, "all subjects" means what it says.

My forum I believe is about 15 years old by now. I've lost track. It was a concept I discussed with George for several years before he helped me bring it to fruition. It subsequently spawned all the other Forums you see here today.

The origin of the forum dates back 25 years. Back when I taught martial arts at University of Virginia, I was also immersed in my education and other social affairs - as were all the other students. (FWIW, Ian got both his BS and MD at UVa.) After workouts, a handful of people pretty consistently decided to get together at some place (often my own) to share food, beverage, and conversation. Sometimes we talked about martial arts. Mostly we talked about other things - as do most people who "have a life."

If you think this is rare or not associated with martial arts, well you would be wrong. Marty Dow studied in the Kadena dojo with the late Shinjo Seiyu, with Kiyohide and Narahiro (sons) as his peers. Marty told me they also got together after workout to have some light snacks and talk about any and everything.

So when you come into my home (metaphorically speaking), I don't have a lot in the way of requirements. Basically mind your manners (ahem...), don't break the furniture, and help clean up before you leave.

This SPECIFIC thread has its issues, but... what-ever. The premise very much is martially related. We have an acting Congresswoman shot at point-blank range by a mentally disturbed human being. And of course he didn't stop there. Understanding that violence happens, why it happens, and how it can be avoided or circumvented are martial topics.

Ian and I? That's another story. Ian likes to argue, and sometimes will have a strong opinion on a matter. I occasionally build predictive models in my professional life, and have tried building some to predict rare events. (So has the Secret Service, by the way...) Ian would have us believe that there's nothing anyone could have done (short of unacceptable processes) which could have identified the perp as a potential threat. We disagree. The argument has spanned several years, going back to the shootings at Virginia Tech. In any one round of the discussion I'll go on for a while with it. When I tire of it, I let Ian have the last word - which makes him stop posting.

It is what it is.

Meanwhile on Van's Forum, we find this.

Hey Bro..
You know I both like and respect you/// But you need to think about this... I spent 20 years of hard interogation to know to hit there.. You and Bill both need to take this down.. Too many weirdos that can access this info!!! Abunai!!!

Well... damned if you do, and damned if you don't!

Here's the deal on that.

First, it's Van's forum and he'll conduct it any way he wishes.

Second... If someone asks a "dicey" question, more often than not I'll give an answer. And why? In all the years I've taught martial arts, I've heard some whoppers. One of my favorites (heard several times) goes something like this.

I was told that the Korean Tigers - a special forces group - have a technique where they pull a person's jaw down, thrust their hand down the guy's throat, grab the heart, and yank it out. They'll show it to the person just before they drop dead. It's based on a principle where a guy's arm is stronger than his opponent's jaw.

When I heard a student tell me this about 30 years ago, I didn't know where to start. Do I ask him why the heart was in the alimentary canal? Do I tell him that he probably ought not to put his hand in an angry dude's mouth? Oy!!!

So when someone brings up a legitimate point about how a knife technique was taught to him that was a "kill shot" - in the context of something I just posted - well I'll address it.

As for having crazy people go off and do stuff, well... I understand you - up to a point. If you want to kill somebody, it's probably a lot more efficient just to copy what the deranged fellow did a few weeks ago in Arizona. And there are easier (and more obvious) ways to kill someone with a knife than looking for the subclavian artery. I mean... just ask OJ!

- Bill

[Stevie B]

I'm truly in awe that your mind and ego can fit into the same head, let alone the same room..You really have to admit that you go on for days about goofy stuff, and more time about yourself... But yeah... Do what you want....

[Stevie B]

Vann was thankful to me that I pointed that out... and sorry I didn't get back sooner to you Doc... But to be honest, you bore me with the 5 page essays about how great you are, so I just don't tune in here that much...
I had to come back and edit these posts, because at first, I have to admit, I became a little upset... But after thinking about it, I put it in the place it should be... COMICAL..
But yes, I agree, there are easier ways that a Psycho could dispatch someone... A gun, knife , ect...but how about just some underage kids playing at School? What if it was your kid that went to School one day, and a bully decided to try out some of the stuff he read here? And just as an accident hit that one place?
You say it's nearly impossible, and maybe it is.. But I know that in my lifetime I have heard News reports of kids being severely hurt or even die from simular stuff.. So all I said was think about it.. But you're right.. It's you guys little World, so do as you wish...

[Stevie B]

At a certain point, the Okinawans would just look at someone that runs their lips too much and say "yoku shabaru da na" meaning " man is guy long winded" or in Kiyohide's case, he may just reach across and smack you out of the chair with a Shikoken, either way you get the point...
And please don't tell me second or third hand stories about the Shinjo family Bill.. I don't think you really want to go there with me...

[Jason Rees]

Stevie B, you strike me as a rude fella. Your concern with what Van posted may have been spot-on, but your tone was not. Your tone here is inexcusable.

If this were my house, I'd be showing you the door. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

[Stevie B]

I'm sure I'm really concerned with how you view what and how I say things Jason... I have a saying for you, and it doesn't take half of a Sunday newspaper to spit out..... "BITE ME!!!"
How's that? And in case you are living in the Twilight Zone with the rest of your buddies here, I remind you.. This isn't a house, it's a forum on an advertisement space... Get a grip already...

[CANDANeh]

Unfortunately sometimes being a karateka shrinks a persons world...they become a small child with no longer a parental figure to guide them. For the majority fortunately that is not the case.

Wonderful forum

[Stevie B]

It seems that here, if you aren't putting things in terms that that gratify the moderators egos, then you are a rude, obnoxious human being (even though my point was to help them by saving them the heartache and possible legal ramifications from posting something that maybe they should re think)..
Point is still the same, if Jason wants to paint me out that I can be less than eloquent, or Bill wants to compare it to breaking furniture in his home, then so be it... And I agree with you, I think this is a wonderful forum.. And I actually like Dr. Glasheen, and think he is in fact a brilliant man.. I do get bored of reading through a bunch of intellectual gibberish however to see his real points..And I will be the first to admit humbly that I could probably use some etiquette classes.. But with that said, I think that what I said should be viewed more for content rather than context, instead of me having to worry about if I fit into any "Old Boy's Club" and stroke already inflated egos on here..
And you have to admit Bill, the "Forrest Gump" thing was just funny... Sorry if you didn't get the joke... But man .. You can ramble for hours Bro!!!
I feel like I would read through more of your stuff and actually get something out of it if I didn't need a Thesaurus to make it through half of a sentence..
And please don't be offended so easily... that's why I like Vann so much.. It takes me half of a night just to get him riled up enough to post a smiley face for me...LMAO!!!

[mhosea]

Martial arts forums are usually heavy on the ego. No need to stroke egos, I think. In my experience, everything works out fine here if we stick to the issues under discussion and avoid making our individual personalities, with all their inevitable faults, the actual topic of discussion.

[IJ]

Bill, I think you still aren't reading me clearly.

"I occasionally build predictive models in my professional life, and have tried building some to predict rare events. (So has the Secret Service, by the way...) Ian would have us believe that there's nothing anyone could have done (short of unacceptable processes) which could have identified the perp as a potential threat. We disagree."

No, I fully support attempts to head off this violence before it happens, and clearly said so. There were clear warning signs for a while. No one had him evaluated. What I object to is the proposal that these very hard to predict events will be largely identifiable; the truth is more like the WSJ quote YOU posted which points out they may be reduced, but cannot be entirely stopped. Saying I think "nothing" can be done when I in fact clearly said otherwise is clearly a misrepresentation at this point. (I'm sorry you're still prickled by my posts.)

And more than that, I object strongly to your depiction of physicians as people who will pass the buck and don't care about a shoot-out as long as they've "CYA'd." You seem entirely deaf to the reality of the limits on our ability to detain people under current law that's not going to change anytime soon. This depiction was / is really offensive as well as demonstrably wrong, and it was / is inappropriate.

Meanwhile, Stevie B, welcome to the debate! It's obvious you can self congratulate or insult with the best of them, regardless of your stated opposition to such practices. All you need now is... content.

PS to Bill: We BOTH like to argue!

[Stevie B]

LMAO @ Ian!!! You go Ian, and thanks ...

[gmattson]

Tomoyose sensei instilled in me the concept of expanding one's environment. After every class we drank tea and he would expand my karate world with his tales of Kanbun in China and hundreds of other topics. For a young man, fresh off the farm, his talks and lessons motivated me to do something no one else in my family did. . . further my education. Another lesson I learned was not to become "one-dimensional" in my thinking or in my interests.

When Bill and I discussed the concept of an on-line forum, aside from the technical problems involved with at the time, new method of communicating, we kicked around what we were looking for in a format. All karate??? All Uechi-ryu???

No, we wanted something that would publicize anything that was of interest to people who happened to share a commonality in their Uechi-ryu training. I really hoped to create a place that would replicate my after class tea sessions with Tomoyose sensei.

Bill came up with the name, Dojo Roundtable, which I believe is the perfect title.

As it turns out, Van's forum, which focuses more on martial art realism, at times veers off to explore fine art, fine liquors and even on occasion, fine women. Readers, including myself, have enjoyed Van's literary talents as he will every now and then pleasantly surprises his readers with a narrative worthy of publication in a fine magazine.

God willing, we will all be around for many years to entertain and share experiences. . . with a sense of humor, humility and an ability to learn.

[Panther]

As GEM-Sensei put so well... One of the fantastic things about the forums here is that, for the most part, they're open to just about anything the moderator is willing to discuss/allow. (And that's a LOT, especially compared to other forums I have or am involved in...)

Regardless, just in case you didn't see my response Bill-Sensei, I replied on the original thread.