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 Post subject: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:58 am 
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The images from the riot in Vancouver after the hockey game are both sad and interesting.
Scan the crowd and look at how many are photographing perpetrators at work...easy to google multiple images. Facebook this morning I am certain is being scanned for evidence by police lol. A lot of innocent people hanging around as riot tourist...subjecting themselves to harm from the crowd and police. Stabbings reported, beatings and of course treatment for exposure to tear gas...at least one serious trauma from a fall or push off a parkway. Take note of the Canadian riot act below
Code:
    Under Sections 67-68 of the Criminal Code of Canada, a public official may read what's colloquially called the "Riot Act" in order to disperse an unruly crowd:

"Her Majesty the Queen charges and commands all persons being assembled immediately to disperse and peaceably to depart to their habitations or to their lawful business on the pain of being guilty of an offence for which, on conviction, they may be sentenced to imprisonment for life."

People who do not "peaceably disperse" within 30 minutes are "guilty of an indictable offence and liable to[b]imprisonment for life.[/b] 

In most countries people initiate a riot because of oppression...as a Canadian I am ashamed of the amount of village idiots we have bred in this land of ours.

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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:07 pm 
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/06/16/bc-riot-thursday.html

Quote:
The CBC's Belle Puri reported that families with children watching the game on giant outdoor screens near the Rogers arena seemed to sense the approaching danger as the game neared the end. Some left early.

"You know, I stayed until the score was three-nothing, and I was … right in the middle of the crowd. And it was interesting: at about that point, I heard a lot of people, especially people with families, saying, 'You know, it's time to go; we don't want to be here ….' They were worried."


Smart...good instinct to trust

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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:26 pm 
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Sad indeed. Human nature but a virus on this planet.

I knew something bad was happening when I saw the rink being pelted with garbage...the booing etc.

And the problem is aggravated by the serving of alcohol...
:(

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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Mob mentality, alcohol and curiosity thrill seekers. I find it interesting the amount of photo`s and video`s being submitted that will identify most of the perpetrators. Even looters proudly displaying themselves and their loot for others to photograph....make mom proud eh.
Difficult situation for the police as so many innocent bystanders who must have had their survival instincts bred out of them. The neutral bystanders in my opinion could easily be spurred to escalate the riot. Interesting to watch how the police moved with great caution. How riots occur and how to control or prevent them I suspect is an interesting science to study.

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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:13 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot

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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:56 pm 
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A riot some of us found ourselves in _was when competing at the Madison Square Garden years back in Henry Cho's All American Karate championships...then the toughest, most dangerous Tournament of the day.

There were many groups of fighters who were no more than 'gangs' and street 'toughs' hell bent at proving themselves.

At one point we had to move about together as some punks who had lost fairly in regular matches, had threatened to show us how to fight for real down in the locker rooms.

I personally saw one hapless competitor with an eyeball out hanging on his face.

When the riot broke out in the middle of the floor, I saw big Ed Daniels, the 'king Kong' of karate [6ft 9 inches] a Texas policeman, get into the middle of the riot and attempt to placate the rioters.

Police officers in the stands, just got up and left the building. Can't say I blamed them because they were wearing guns.

We were able to stay at the periphery of the riot and evade.

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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:36 pm 
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CANDANeh wrote:

I am ashamed of the amount of village idiots we have bred in this land of ours.

In the past, Detroit, LA, and other cities have shown a similar population of idiots. Only in its ugly hindsight do people come to their senses and take appropriate preemptive action to prevent this.

Another brand of idiot - mostly anarchists by political persuasion - can be found whenever world leaders meet over the state of economies. They make sympathy for their cause an act of futility.

Not your fault, Leo. We know better.

- Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:16 pm 
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I second that Leo. You personally have nothing to be ashamed of.

Here's something from a Canadian
Quote:
They are the scum of the earth. Not because they're doing anything particularly evil, but it shows how pathetic human beings they are, and people like that are a waste of space. I would happily shoot any of them. Humanity at its lowest.


Apparently rioting over hockey has happened there before but not anywhere else in Canada.

Itseems to me we have had a similar situation here in Boston years back over baseball.

The scum always seems to rise to the top.

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 Post subject: Then again...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:41 pm 
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Montreal rioted in 2008 over a hockey game with Boston, from what I read.

There is no worse feeling of vulnerability than getting caught in a riot.

All your martial arts skills, even weaponry, so suddenly will feel so inadequate as survival pedestals.

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 Post subject: Re: Then again...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:

All your martial arts skills, even weaponry, so suddenly will feel so inadequate as survival pedestals.

Well, my friend... That depends a lot on what one classifies as "martial skills."

If you're talking about being deftly in touch with your lower brain and minding DeBecker's "Gift of Fear", well then maybe the principles behind those martial lessons will come to bear.

If you're talking about your martial wannabe who focuses on his pelvic tuck as chaos ensues, well...

Image

It's so sad when the reality of some human behavior is best illustrated by our cartoons.

- Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:42 pm 
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CANDANeh wrote:

In most countries people initiate a riot because of oppression...as a Canadian I am ashamed of the amount of village idiots we have bred in this land of ours.

As an admirer of Mr. Jefferson, I find your reflection very saddening.

Here's something I wrote on a sports blog yesterday morning.
Quote:

I find it sad that some fans are so wrapped up in their teams, and feel as if their lives are ruined when SOMEONE ELSE doesn't accomplish something. It's great being a loyal fan. But when you have no life and rely on your sports team to generate one for you, that's just pathetic. Not that we haven't seen a few baseball fans like that...


- Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Then again...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Bill Glasheen wrote:
Van Canna wrote:

All your martial arts skills, even weaponry, so suddenly will feel so inadequate as survival pedestals.

Well, my friend... That depends a lot on what one classifies as "martial skills."

If you're talking about being deftly in touch with your lower brain and minding DeBecker's "Gift of Fear", well then maybe the principles behind those martial lessons will come to bear.

If you're talking about your martial wannabe who focuses on his pelvic tuck as chaos ensues, well...

- Bill


Right on, Bill. Karate is multi-dimensional as you point out.

The physical part only a miniscule component when we get right down to it. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:08 pm 
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/06/16/f-vancouver-riot-effect.html
Quote:
Vancouver's night of rampage does fit relatively well with the overall pattern of sports riots in North America. From his research, Lewis has identified five common conditions:

* A natural urban gathering place.
* The availability of a 'cadre' of young, white males.
* Championship stakes.
* Deep in the series.
* A close, exciting game.

Sports riots vs. political riots

Compared to political riots, like the kind we've been seeing in Greece for weeks now, sports riots tend to be much shorter. Lewis found that they typically last two to three hours while political riots, including race riots, go on longer, sometimes for days and weeks at a time.

Another difference is that, while the key variables for sports riots are young males, in political riots women also participate. riots vs. political riots

Compared to political riots, like the kind we've been seeing in Greece for weeks now, sports riots tend to be much shorter. Lewis found that they typically last two to three hours while political riots, including race riots, go on longer, sometimes for days and weeks at a time.

Another difference is that, while the key variables for sports riots are young males, in political riots women also participate.

Quote:
"Young white males just start doing it, there's a gathering around them of what I call cheerleaders who act in support, then the observers create an arena," Lewis explained.

Carrothers said that appeared to be the case in Vancouver, even though it was not a celebrating event.

"Vancouver might just be an international city with a different dynamic," he said, adding, "It's nothing they should be ashamed of as a city, it happens."

Lewis's conclusion is that the 'Vancouver effect' is completely different from other sports riots. "We have to figure out why.

The "why" seems to point at the more refined strategy used by the anarchist group that was also involved in the olympic riot. Fires and smashing windows in key locations where the young males would have access to "celebrate" was well placed "tinder". If Vancouver would have won the game some experts believe the strategy of the "anarchist" would have created a much larger riot.

"Introduction To Sports Fan Violence In North America"
The book in the link below will make it to my collection...Never know when a little insight will help save your life or a loved one. Interesting to discover that the worst times of your life may occur when it should be the best of times. 8O
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ng06tCVRJ24C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:15 pm 
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Good stuff, Leo. Thanks for the links.

Your posts made me think to go look for a phenomenon I was aware of for years. It seems that someone just recently published something on this in the Quarterly Journal of Economics. This is an assessment of the article in Time.

Time wrote:

Fan Rage: How Home Team Losses Contribute to Domestic Violence

Any diehard football fan can relate to post-loss blues — when your beloved team is outscored by a rival, it's hard to keep your spirits up or put on a happy face after the game.

And while it's easy to dismiss such disappointment as nothing more than fan frenzy or simple fanaticism, the latest research suggests that negative emotions triggered by events such as a football loss can lead to more serious crimes and behaviors like domestic violence.

In a comprehensive survey of domestic violence calls recorded by 763 police departments in half a dozen states, economists David Card and Gordon Dahl report in the Quarterly Journal of Economics that NFL losses can result in a 10% spike in domestic violence reports in the hour or so after a local football team has just suffered a loss. The volume of calls doubles when the team loses to a traditional rival, and also surges if the football team loses during the playoffs.

Card and Dahl analyzed the relationship between domestic violence and football losses in order to better understand the factors that contribute to domestic violence, which is the leading cause of injury to women in the U.S. Violence in the home runs counter to the idea that the family is a source of support and in need of protection, and sociologists and psychologists speculate that apart from cases of mental illness, many cases of domestic abuse arises from the need of one partner to exert control over the other.

Even so, says Dahl, the prevalence of domestic violence suggests that other, perhaps more transient factors, may be contributing to cases as well. “A lot of domestic violence doesn't happen because people like to hit or control people,” says Dahl. “It seems like there is a role for some people basically losing their temper, and hitting an emotional cue that allows them to do something in the heat of the moment that they later regret. That's where our paper comes in. It doesn't excuse domestic violence or say that domestic violence is a good thing, but it does help us understand what we can do to help stop it.”

The key, say Card and Dahl, is managing expectations. Their study provided a window into the importance of expectations in modulating emotions, an understanding of which could help address some of the triggers of domestic violence. They correlated domestic violence reports with the days that local teams were playing, as well as with projected betting odds to determine whether the local team was expected to win or lose. In the study, the “key thing wasn't whether the team won or lost the game, but whether they won or lost unexpectedly,” says Dahl. “It doesn't matter whether you lose the game, but it does matter in your emotional reaction when you lose the game when you thought your team was going to win.”

In other words, the loss is more emotionally salient if you were expecting to win, and therefore more mentally disturbing and likely to trigger a temper flare and even violence against loved ones. Interestingly, Card and Dahl found that there was no increase in domestic violence reports when teams were expected to lose and then lost. There was also no beneficial effect of lower violence rates when teams won when they were expected to lose. “Upsetting bad news is really bad, and upsetting or unexpected good news is okay, but doesn't have the same positive effect as unexpected bad news has on emotions,” he says.

Card, who has been studying factors that contribute to domestic violence, notes that in the analysis, he was not able to glean much information on the families affected by violence following football losses because he was only able to collect basic information on reports of domestic violence from police databases, and not from arrests. “We don't know anything about these families — what kinds of jobs the spouses held, how long they were married, whether they had kids. All of these would be extremely interesting in learning more about who might be most vulnerable to this type of influence,” he says.

Based on the limited amount of data that was available in the police reports, however, Card says the trend appears to cut across racial and economic lines, and apply pretty universally to all types of families. Teasing apart further details on how such temporary emotional triggers can set off domestic violence, however, could lead to improved interventions that could eventually lower rates of abuse, which can have lasting and harmful effects not just on the victims but on entire families as well.


Source: Fan Rage: How Home Team Losses Contribute to Domestic Violence


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 Post subject: Re: Caught in a riot?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:42 am 
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Interesting correlation...never thought of it.

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