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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Mina-san Please excuse my invasion of your inbox but I thought that you may find interesting this little gem of karate history.

Learn about the origins of Karate (Tudi, "Tang or China" Hand) among members of the highest levels of Ryukyuan society. Karate was part of the upbringing of selected sons of noble and samurai families who were trained to become bushi, cultured gentlemen. Based largely on Chinese martial arts and values, Karate was usually taught secretly or in private. After the Ryukyu Kingdom was abolished and Okinawa became a prefecture (1879), Karate became a part of the public school curriculum. Taught publicly and to a large number of students for the first time, Karate had to adapt to Japanese values and objectives.

Karate came to Hawaii with the very first Okinawan immigrants starting in 1900. Through Karate training, students are provided an opportunity to learn about Okinawan history and culture.

Part I: http://youtu.be/Vx9RMDIqs4Q

Part 2: http://youtu.be/jI6A8Bxld7o

Part 3: http://youtu.be/4NC-YHIM6eE

Part 4: http://youtu.be/zcy3ooegQoc

Part 5 A: http://youtu.be/ySGsFmHKEsc

Main site is at: http://www.youtube.com/user/HawaiiKarateMuseum#g/u

If you have a Youtube membership you may want to subscribe to Charles' site so you will be notified of future additions.

George,Van, Dan, Victor or anyone else please feel free to post on your forums or blogs. I sent this to the Yahoo Cyberdojo Group but my posts sometimes go unpublished. This a great series showing how important Hawaii was to the popularity and development of many great instructors.
お大事に
Ichariba Chode,
Jim Prouty
New England Budo Center

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:25 am 
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Van has got to listen to these lectures. I'm sure he'll enjoy them. They dispel a lot of myths about what Okinawan karate was (vs. is).

- Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Bill Glasheen wrote:
Van has got to listen to these lectures. I'm sure he'll enjoy them. They dispel a lot of myths about what Okinawan karate was (vs. is).

- Bill


Bill, I can't get those links to work...can you summarize what Okinawan Karate was [vs. is] ?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:

can you summarize what Okinawan Karate was [vs. is] ?


Will do, Van.

Let me listen much more carefully. Each link is about half an hour. I skimmed through them and picked up some highlights.

The part that is interesting is how folks taught in the past (and individually I might add) vs. how karate training changed in the process of bringing it into the school curricula. In addition to the teaching format change, there was an intentional disguising of content.

No wonder why many haven't a clue; that was all part of the plan! You might say a newer generation of instructors succeeded beyond their wildest expectations.

I hate to come off sounding arrogant, but... You know what I mean, Van. I don't need to portray myself as possessing The Holy Grail to understand that some things got lost in the translation from Old Testament to New Testament.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:15 am 
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Hi Bill,

Thanks. I finally was able to get to these links and listen to the interviews for a while.

Pretty good stuff, but from my take of it…considering the Japanese seemed to annex the kingdom in the period 1872 to 1879, perhaps this is an example of the disruption in the interview.

As in the interview where as many fled conscription to Hawaii, Kanbun chose China

clearly a change in karate was already underway and maybe complete , and it seems this change would only continue and perhaps even heighten when the market went from in house family training to military preparation and nationalism , and post war to teaching and expanding of karate internationally .

The questions to Uechi of course were was what affect this had on the Uechi style, Kanbun of course resuming teaching for clearly martial reasons, and of course his source being Chinese and not Okinawan, it points more to looking at the cultural state of martial arts in china of the time, and to the changes perhaps affected on the method on his return and broadened teachings and subsequently over the passage of years.

The highlight to me of the interview was the acknowledgement of the brutality and effectiveness of karate, combined with the culture and restraint and humility of the Ryu kyus, and the explanation of the political and sociological context that makes such attributes explainable and understandable and maybe even tactical, and a real example for everyone to aspire.

If anything, I am more partial to the work of Patrick McCarthy when it comes to discussions of Okinawan karate. In my view, there is nobody who 'has it' like he does, in all aspects of it.

http://www.martialartsview.com/index-100.html

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Van

I agree with your thinking about how Uechi has a unique footing on Okinawa. As they say, great minds think alike. 8)

Per the lecture series' suggestions, Okinawa te changed after the Japanese overtook the island - just around the time Kanbun split to avoid conscription. Furthermore... one thing we have are glimpses of what Kanbun Ryu looked like before Kanei packaged it into Uechi Ryu. Some things have changed, but the core was likely left intact. Various folks (e.g. you, Bob Campbell, Kiyohide, Gordi, myself) have been spending time putting together a semblance of what "it" was. In my case and yours as well, we're not so obsessed with rediscovering some sacred lost thing. We just want to make "it" work, and in doing so we keep stumbling on the past. Meanwhile we are indeed blessed with one of the few examples of China te on Okinawa.

Another thing I wanted to enjoy with you is the pinprick in the quaint legend of the Okinawa masters defeating the original invading samurai. Oh really? Forget about the katana; they had firearms.

Image

Image

As the chi-ster granola eaters discovered in the Boxer Rebellion, bullets work. :oops:

Also... In the Japanization of Okinawa, China hand becomes empty hand - a homonym in their language. But Okinawa's China te never was an empty-hand art. They all had weapons, and they practiced with their weapons. Any weapon on China could be found in pre-1900 Okinawa.

Anyhow... lots of interesting material.

I agree with you about Patrick McCarthy. Good man!

- Bill


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:22 am 
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This is from the McCarthy's site
Quote:
What constitutes an "authentic" transmission in terms of martial arts and which individuals received that transmission from their teachers is one of the most controversial topics in martial arts today.

Countless articles in martial publications have discussed it. Internet chat rooms, list servers and newsgroups devoted to the subject seem obsessed with it and I've seldom read a martial arts magazine that didn't have at least one letter to the editor in which a practitioner claimed that "my sifu can beat your sifu" because my teacher got the "real" or "secret" transmission of his style.

Often when a great acknowledged master dies, his top students contend among themselves as to whose understanding of the art entitles them to be the standard bearer. Sometimes, even a lesser-known or unknown student will make such a claim to mastery. Personally, these conflicts have always saddened me as a martial artist and a human being.

Many of these teachers are simply motivated by greed, petty rivalry or shameless self-promotion. But, putting all that to one side for a moment, as we enter an age where many of the learned masters of the older generation are dying off, how does one decide whom to study with? Whose "transmission" can be said to be "authentic"?

I believe the answers to these questions lie not so much in the art, but in the artists, in their basic humanity and in the teaching process itself.


As to the old masters defeating samurais...well...maybe that's where the seisan jump originates from :mrgreen:

Also to consider is that the sanchin 'iron shirt' deflects bullets :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:

As to the old masters defeating samurais...well...maybe that's where the seisan jump originates from :mrgreen:

Also to consider is that the sanchin 'iron shirt' deflects bullets :wink:

Well here's the "modern" interpretation of that Seisan technique, Van.

Image

Works for me! 8)

I'm still working out my Sanseiryu bunkai.

Image

And if that doesn't work, well... at least we'll look good...

Image

... and get the girl at the end of the day.

Image

Hey, it could happen! :lol:

Image

Note how I conveniently skip the photo where reality hits. :wink:

- Bill


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:23 pm 
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:)

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