Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:23 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30340
Hi Steve,

Specifically to your question...I practice concepts in the forms and occasionally visualize the type of opponent[s] I might come up against.

The type of opponent and the number of them, really should dictate the concepts you must internalize to survive a beating.

The mistakes students make, in my view, is to think that their Uechi practice, their conditioning etc., makes them superior to any opponent they might face in the street...because they can kick their legs in, shoken them in the throat etc._

The opponent could be a linebacker type used to heavy contact, or you will be facing multiple opponents, such as it is very prevalent these days in street attacks.

In adrenalized states, such big opponents don't feel much pain anyway, even if you hit them in the 'right spot'...reason why there are documented cases of bad guys shot with .45 caliber bullets in the chest, but keep on coming at you for the kill.Image

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30340
Hi Steve,

I wasn't very clear in my previous post. What I meant to say was that when I occasionally use conceptual imagery, is strictly in the forms...other than sanchin.

Now this from Walter that you will find interesting, I think
Quote:
In response to Steve Hatfield's question about Sanchin practiced by yourself.

I consider a mirror the next best source of feedback, if there's no one else to train with.

I don't conjur up an imaginary opponent for the Sanchin practice I keep Sanchin as distinct from Kanshiwa as possible.

I use a slow dynamic tension form to work on timing and accuracy_

_ a second form to train the striking "explosion" from natural or "off guard" to fully focused at impact ( Kime )

_ and a third soft arm relaxed form to train my hips to drive my arms.

My test form will show the results of these three solo drills.

FYI - My typical class would feature Sanchin 4 times, the 3 group Sanchin drills as above, followed by individual test form.


I have gone through this sequence with Walter in the past, and I follow this training concept pretty much in my classes as it seems to be helpful to students.

This training concept comes from Takara sensei. If you watch video clips of Takara Sama...you will notice his seemingly effortless explosive power.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Murphy North Carolina
That's interesting. I suppose I thought that, because Sanchin plays so important a role in the foundation of Uechi Ryu, that it would have had, at least to some extent, and at times, a more martial application. I guess I mean that I have never heard of a kata that didn't have a primarily martial application. And the fact that master Kanbum Uechi was only allowed to study the sanchin kata for three solid years. All of the foundational moves, strikes, turns and receiving do seem to have martial applications and translate into each of the other Uechi kata. So I just thought that there would be time spent seeing an opponent while practicing. I do understand the concepts of the three conflicts/three battles and the mind/body/soul.....mind/body/spirit, so there would be a need to focus on those. I guess I'm rambling now but I do appreciate the comments from both of you.

steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30340
Hi Steve,

You make very good observations.

We have also heard many times that Sanchin is not a kata but an exercise.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30340
Quote:
In reply to Steve Hatfield:

Sanchin plays the most important role.

When we reference Sanchin as the "foundation" we should mean the foundation of everything in our system.

Taking Kanshiwa ( and every kata beyond ) as an example, the three stages of my kata progression are 1) sequence (a dance) 2) practical effect ( a combative exercise) 3) techniques reflect Sanchin form ( finally, it's a KATA ).

This being the progression for each kata, and the 3rd stage requiring infinite time and effort, the "application" of Sanchin is as a gauge to indicate our progression toward kata perfection.

The mistake comes when we interpret "foundation" to mean "basic."

As you say, Steve, Kanbun Uechi's first 3 years of training were restricted almost exclusively to Sanchin training. A good indication of it's importance.
As always, thanks for your interest.

Walter Mattson

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30340
Quote:
Hi Van,

I need to clarify what I meant when I wrote, "3) finally it's a KATA."
I meant finally Kanshiwa had become a kata after progressing through the first two stages.

I don't consider Sanchin a kata. For me it's an exercise more like a tool.

As to Master Takara's opinion about Sanchin kata vs Sanchin exercise, I speculate, because we've never talked about it, his answer would probably be "Sanchin? - It's Sanchin!"

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30340
Quote:
Dear Van,

I want to thank you for asking me to contribute to your Forum on the topic of Sanchin. I've found the experience stimulating and gratifying. I've intended nothing of a controversial nature and I sense nothing of the sort in return. I enjoy the fact that everyone feels free to communicate with me even though I'm not their direct teacher.

If I can digress, I'd like to make a comparison between taking responsibility for your students and claiming ownership of your students. What's best for the student is not necessarily what's best for the teacher.

"Teach everyone who comes, chase after no one who leaves" is probably the most familiar quote from late Master Kanei Uechi.

He's describing the mutual respect between a teacher and a student and also acknowledging that students will sometimes need to verify that your dojo is best for them.

They might want to try another dojo or even another style. What does it say about a teacher who bristles at the prospect of comparison?

My students, as you know, have visited your dojo, Art Rabesa's, Charlie Earle's, John Conroy's, George Mattson's and countless others.

Most of the time my permission was sought but not always.

Likewise, my dojo has accomodated many visitors. Some of my students never came back and some of the visitors joined my dojo.

At the end of the day, the dojos began to reflect the intent of their teachers, "everyone on the floor wants to be here."

I had a barber who got mad because someone else in his shop had cut my hair. I told him, " I don't recall selling you the franchise to my head!"

I get my haircut wherever I choose and I give my students the right to train with whomever they choose.

With apologies to barbers, I encourage all teachers to be more like Master Uechi and less like the barber.

Walter Mattson

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30340
Well spoken Walter, and so true.

I tell a student ...you want to study Uechi...great...now what do you want Uechi-Ryu to do for you...they may or may not know the answer right then and there...they might say something they think you want to hear...OK...

In time, they will make the right choice one way or another, on the basis of who they are and what their true original intent was for being on the floor.

And that is OK...it reflects human nature.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Murphy North Carolina
I would like to thank you Van and Walter for your replies. They have been insightful, albeit not always easy to put into practice. Thanks much. I hope the discussion of sanchin can continue.

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SANCHIN
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30340
Thank you Steve for participating.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group