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 Post subject: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:28 am 
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Greetings,

I have been considering the 10mm auto as a possible choice for a handgun purchase in the near future. I've done some research on the round, mostly comparing it to .40 S&W, .357 magnum and to a lesser degree, the .45 ACP and .357SIG. I understand that the 10mm was the new wunderkind back in the day, and ran out of gas due to its recoil. Supposedly it is more ideal for hunting and not so great for personal defense or police application. That said, it has some serious fans... there are those who love the round for its sheer power. My question is this: Are there any folks here who have experience with the round that can lend a little advice?

I appreciate any answers, thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:15 pm 
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NEB, I have a Glock 20, which fires the 10mm round. I don't know that it really has any more recoil than a mid-size .357 revolver (and it does have less recoil than any .45 I've shot). I do know that the ballistics charts I've seen show deeper penetration from the 10mm. The 10mm is also a very popular handgun in areas populated by black bear. Ted Nugent has made much of carrying it while hunting black bear himself.

I have a sub-compact 9mm as well, and honestly, I think the sub-compact has more recoil. However, if you're considering the 10mm for concealed carry, I really think it's only suitable for that in the winter.

A solid round in an accurate handgun with deep penetration. What's not to like? 8)

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Some comments from gun forums
Quote:
There are just too many compelling reasons to choose the .45 over the 10 for urban protection and everyday shooting including cost of ammo, speed of follow up shots, and proven track record of the .45 on the 1911 platform. If this was going to be a woods gun in black bear or wild boar country and you didn't want to carry a wheelgun, then I'd say 10mm all the way.

Over penetration is a serious consideration when we envision firing a 10mm defensively in home, enclosed areas and in the street.

The 10mm is perceived as a fairly unusual, very powerful round. If, God forbid, you ever had to use it to defend yourself, a lawyer trying to prosecute you could go on about how the 10mm is so much more powerful than a "normal" self defense round, "this man WANTED to shoot someone!"

Just something to think about.

10mm is notorious for over penetrating. It is also hard to find ammo for.

45 ACP is common as dirt and a proven big stopper. .45 ACP is fairly plentiful, less expensive and a proven stopper.

The full house 10mm Auto rounds are great for hunting, or for those jogging or walking in rural areas.

Against animals of the two legged variety, there is a chance of over penetration using a full house 10mm round. I personally opt for the Con-Bon 165gr. JHP's for personal defense. More than enough energy to incapacitate but not over penetrate!


There are just too many compelling reasons to choose the .45 over the 10 for urban protection and everyday shooting including cost of ammo, speed of follow up shots, and proven track record of the .45 on the 1911 platform. If this was going to be a woods gun in black bear or wild boar country and you didn't want to carry a wheelgun, then I'd say 10mm all the way.

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Very good points.

I carry with Cor Bon 200gr rounds for hiking, and 184gr hollow-points for in town, with a magazine of the Cor Bons available, cause you never know which variety you're going to run into in Anchorage.

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:04 pm 
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What it really boils down to is this:

1. Why do you want a specific gun/caliber?

2. What is the need you anticipate the gun/caliber for? What do you want the gun/caliber to do?

3. Where do you anticipate the gun/caliber will be most likely fired...and why?

4. Can you afford the ammo for your practice? Will you practice with it or are you buying the gun as as a sweat/dirt collector?

5. Is the ammo for the gun widely available?

~~~

When you think about it...the best way is to own more than one gun, each designed for anticipated activities and needs.

As to a carry gun...if it is too heavy/cumbersome and will 'print' easily...sooner or later it will be left at home. Don't carry a gun in a separate pouch/case etc. _ sooner or later you will forget it somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Some great replies, thanks everyone.

I live in California, so the possibility of ever being legally able to carry is slim to none. For the most part, only celebs and cops are legally allowed to carry here, a dubious reality but the one I have to live with. Of course, the gang bangers carry too, but not legally. So for me, the gun will be used at the range, when my friends and I get together for some practice time. The occasional outing to an outdoor shooting facility is also on the agenda. I understand from some internet research that some 10mm pistols can shoot .40 cal ammo. If this is true, that would make for a good practice round to save money, and possibly a good personal defense option to avoid the problem of over-penetration. For hikes, or excursions to wilderness areas where it is (apparently) legal to carry, the full-tilt 10mm ammo would apply. Of course lugging a heavy handgun through the wilderness for a week hiking in the mountains doesn't appeal too much, but I may just do it anyway. There are bears in the Sierra Nevadas and Rockies.

One other question is ammo size. The .45 ACP is a fatter round, how would that affect the number of rounds I can fit into a reasonable sized clip?

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Neb,

I have Paraordnance_P-14...

http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=69

14+1 in chamber= 15 rounds.

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:08 pm 
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http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/1 ... 10mm-auto/

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:16 pm 
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From another forum
Quote:
The #1 best defense against bears is a good can of bear spray. I don't really care what anybody on here says; it's been studied and researched thoroughly here in Alaska and it has proven itself time and time again. It has proven to be 97%-100% effective (depends on which study you read) against bears, while handguns remain at or below the 60% mark.

That being said; I carry a 9oz can of bear spray and my Glock 20SF (10mm) loaded with 200gr WFNGC Beartooth rounds from Double Tap + two spare mags. Yes, I do really live in Kodiak. Yes I have had run-ins with a couple bears. And no, I haven't had to shoot one yet.

Had to replace a few cans of bear spray that I've used (along with a few sets of underwear ) but I did not have to shoot. I draw them both at the same time just in case the spray does not affect the bear. I'm still alive with all my body parts still attached, so there must be something to this bear spray stuff...

Honestly, nothing short of a .375 H&H and higher will likely stop/kill a bear in it's tracks, but I ain't gonna tote a 10 pound bolt gun on my shoulder when I'm hiking, fishing, deer hunting, rabbit hunting, duck hunting, etc... I carry that 10mm because I am deadly accurate with it and it's so light that I won't have an excuse to leave it home..

Will the 10mm penetrate a Kodiak Brown Bear's skull and kill it? No, but neither will a .44 Mag and I don't care what type of bullet you're using; it just won't do it.

I've seen and handled a Kodiak Brownie skull and it ain't no joke. When measured on a horizontal plane (the plane on which the bullet will be traveling) the skull measures roughly 4" or so- on a mature adult. So with a headshot, you're shooting something twice as hard as concrete, 4" thick and on about a 45 degree angle; all in an effort to hit the softball-sized brain?

Not gonna happen with a handgun. Sorry to bust your bubble .44 Mag lovers, it just can't do it.

The best option (when forced to use your handgun after unsuccessfully using bear spray) is to shoot and disable the front shoulders.

If you shatter the front shoulders, it's mobility will be only heavily hampered/slowed at worst, and completely disabled at best. Thus giving you the time to reload if necessary, get to the side of the bear if possible and place an aimed kill shot to the side of the bear's head or spine.

The sides are less protected allowing for one or two shots to the brain, thus ending the threat. (I discuss the 'kill shot' only because under Alaska state law, if you wound or otherwise seriously injure an animal, you must then track it down and kill it. The last thing we want is a ****ed off, wounded bear running around.)

Just about the only chance of a frontal kill shot to the head of a big brownie is to shoot through the nasal passage to the brain. Not a likely scenario to say the least.

You're best bet is bear spray. Carry a gun that you are inherently familiar with and can shoot accurately in the .357 Mag and up range for backup only.

Hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:28 am 
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I'm glad kodiak bears stay on their own island. LOL. I'd be afraid to go anywhere without my .45-70, at the least.

Almost everyone up here in Alaska carries bear spray. It's supposed to work 99% of the time. For the rest, there's making noise to prevent a surprise, and carrying something more than a sharp stick as a last resort (preferrably .357 and above). I was teaching an archery class the other day, and a black bear wandered by twice. A few people took pictures, but otherwise it was sort of a ho-hum moment (oh, look, another black bear).

I have to agree with the earlier sentiment of carrying a 10mm concealed. It's a lot of gun to carry quietly in the summer. In the winter, no big deal.

Quote:
Of course lugging a heavy handgun through the wilderness for a week hiking in the mountains doesn't appeal too much, but I may just do it anyway.


It's really not heavy. I carry mine in a Blackhawk holster, and barely notice it anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:26 pm 
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The combo of Spray/10mm/45-70 is a good one. The 45-70 could be kept in your car just in case. Do Alaska laws allow a loaded rifle in the trunk?

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Alaska law only requires that you notify a police officer that there are guns in the vehicle when they approach. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:38 pm 
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So you can have a loaded rifle in your trunk or backseat?

You can use the standard velocity 300 and 350 bullets for deer hunting out to about 150 yards, after which the rainbow trajectory and modest velocity combine to make longer range game shots chancy.

For the big stuff, you can use some of the modern +P loads from Garrett Cartridge Company, Buffalo Bore Ammunition, or Cor Bon.

A properly loaded .45-70 rifle can take any game on earth, from squirrels to elephants.

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Jason,

Can you carry a master Tanto on you?

http://www.coldsteel.com/tantoseries.html

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 Post subject: Re: 10mm
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:19 am 
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You know, I really haven't looked for blade laws. I'll have to get back to you on that, Van.

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