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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Carlos,

Here is the picture of the alleged Shushiwa as you sent me to post.

Image

One question people will have : What documentation backs up this to be the real Shushiwa?

In his left hand it appears he is holding some kind of a pipe.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:47 pm 
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I also did me the same questions? will this Shushiwa? this be true? and allowed me to ask ... why not?.
because Sensei Kenjiro "Kishaba" Kuniba, would deliver his student, a photo of someone saying that was Shushiwa, and really is not? If these people were from a school Pan Gai Noon or Uechi, you may have an interest us believe is a hoax, but for them it is someone else Shushiwa among many other Chinese masters. You are writing the book is not about our style or Shushiwa is a book on Budo, from the point of view of Okinawan karate of Shuri, closer and more connected to the styles Shorin.
Really if we can not be absolutely certain, I find it easier, for these things I've outlined above, believe, think it's a hoax, as it would be useless deception that would produce no significant benefit to the alleged deceptive.

Yo tambien me hice los mismos cuestionamientos? sera este Shushiwa? sera esto verdadero? y me permiti preguntarme... por que no?.
porque Sensei Kenjiro "Kishaba" Kuniba, entregaria a su alumno, una foto de alguien diciendole que era Shushiwa, y en realidad no lo es? Si estas personas fueran de alguna escuela Uechi o Pan Gai Noon, quizas tuvieran un interes es hacernos creer un engaño, pero para ellos Shushiwa es alguien mas en medio de muchos otros maestros chinos. Ademas el libro que estan escribiendo no trata acerca de nuestro estilo ni de Shushiwa, es un libro sobre el Budo, desde el punto de vista del karate okinawense de Shuri, mas cercano y mas relacionado a los estilos Shorin.
Realmente si bien no podemos tener la absoluta certeza, me es mas facil, por estas cosas que detallo anteriormente, creerlo, que pensar que es un engaño, ya que seria un engaño inutil que no produciria ningun beneficio importante, al supuesto engañador.


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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Very interesting, Carlos...but surely to cause many questions all around. Thank you for the thread.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:48 am 
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Hi Carlos,

I agree it is not a hoax, but probably a mistake …here some comments
Quote:
Kuniba, not being a UechiRyu practitioner
and possibly knowing only the briefest history of Uechi Ryu, simply trusted
the word of someone who gave him erroneous information and a picture.
Likely, neither that person nor Kuniba intended to deceive or mislead, just
made a mistake and didn't do the research very well. The focus of his book
on Budo wasn't the detailed proved history of Uechi Ryu, nor would such an
irrelevant mistake have much impact on the book's content.


I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:02 am 
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Something interesting from Bob Campbell
Quote:
1. The etching of this man, he is holding a opium pipe in his left hand.

2. His clothing is NOT Chinese, NOT southern Chinese and NOT Japanese.

3. His clothing depicts a student monk of Thai or Kampuchean ( Cambodian ) origins & that part of Asia has absolutely ZERO to do with the History of Uechi Ryu.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:17 am 
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From another contact I am told that there are some photos of Shushiwa, owned by a researcher who will be writing a book, that depict Shushiwa from his childhood years through adulthood
and none of them look anything like the man claimed to be Shushiwa.

These photos were provided by
the Shushiwa Family who verify that the photo/drawing of Shushiwa hanging in most
dojo is in fact him.

And that the man in the picture (looks like an engraving) is thin while the photos of
Shushiwa from his early 20's onward are of a man with well-rounded
features and a rather large body.

And that the photo/charcoal drawing of Shushiwa hanging in
most dojo is a faithful copy of an original photo hanging in the altar to
Shushiwa in the Family home.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:22 pm 
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muy buenos puntos de vista !!
Se me ocurrio hacerle llegar este post a quien esta escribiendo el libro, y ver que nos dice !!!!

good views!
It occurred to me bringing you this post who is writing the book, and see what he says!!

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:18 pm 
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That would be interesting, Carlos.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:39 am 
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I must say that Sensei Bob was right, write the subject to see this post, and this is what I wrote in private

I:
hello friend, in our way we have a very interesting forum where people involved in the school, please watch this very interesting post that photo development Shushiwa, a hug
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21807&start=15

answer:

thank you very much for the message and the information I'm not interested leido.realmente enter the forum because if I'm totally honest I do not know in depth the Uechi Ryu and not know how to respond to questions from peers budokas .. I said q Kishaba sensei had given me some lithographs and other things but never told them therefore to assert that I gave shusiwa's not correct. Cave also the possibility that it was a mistake of the mine or it or misunderstood as I am not expert in nihongo. question is all I have to say about it and have my permission to copy and insert it in my answer everything exactly as I wrote it .. thanks and my respect.
I'm on a tour that martial x had not responded earlier.

1:22.
   I:
Sorry to correct but you told me that picture of Shushiwa was one of the lithographs he had received from kisaba sensei
Here is his letter:
Okinawa Bujutsu Kyokai Hozon:
nothing brother in the arts .. like I said part of my book is written with the information I have gathered during my life in this way. The "picture" is one of several lithographs I have in my possession that were given to me by my teacher Kenjiro "Kishaba" Kuniba.
On August 12 the (s) I 20:07:

his own little serious!!

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:59 pm 
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This from my student Fred Chanel...interesting posting with his permission
Quote:
Hi Van,
How are you? I hope all is well. My dojo keeps getting bigger and I find myself a prisoner of my own success in terms of getting out and about to other dojo.

I also as you may know, returned to college, and graduated In the top 5% of my class in history. So I look very critically at these things. I routinely examine documents from the 17th and 18th century.

Last year I was reading an invitation to dinner and found at the bottom it was from George Washington, that was quite exciting.

My most recent project has been authoring a book about an ancestor, the driving force of writing it has been based upon a rare photo of a Revolutionary soldier. Less than thirty of these men existed long enough to be captured in photographs.

Here is my pre-release website http://www.immortalpatriot.com

https://sites.google.com/site/theimmortalpatriot/

Shushiwa was of course far after this time period.

That image looks entirely too modern to be Shushiwa or even from the time period. It is obviously not a photograph but some type of drawing. Photography began in 1837 and by the 1850's was widespread, although I am not entirely sure about the availability of it to men in remote villages in China. There could in theory be many photographs of Shushiwa.

A mystery does however exist with the picture we all hang in the dojo. I was talking to a retired police officer and student of Jack Summers who told me he was involved in the caravan that took Kanei Uechi and some Chinese guests to
Thompson Island.

I was told by him that the picture was presented to someone at that time by a Chinese master. On the back of the photo was some writing. From there the photo was supposedly taken to a police crime lab and multiple copies were duplicated.

At this time of course photos were tough to copy, especially without negatives. So maybe if this original someday turns up we may have something.

Most historical writings on Uechi and the system are based upon secondary information and not the primary evidence historians build books and thesis upon.

Even the excellent information given to us by Toyama before his death is so far after the fact that it would be brought to question by an impartial scholar. I myself are glad we have it, because I don't know if better evidence will ever surface.

Your student,
Fred Channell

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Re: Journey to Fuzhou and the "Search for Shushiwa"
There is a 3 DVD set (at the Uechi store) relating to the 1984 trip to China that Kanei Uechi, Ryuko Tomoyose, Marty Dow, Buzz Durkin, Jon Mills and I took at the invitation of the Fukien Wushu Association, following their one year research relating to Uechi-ryu's history in China. Following is the section where the photo of Shushiwa was introduced to the Western world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C28E2tB1sT8&feature=youtu.be

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:23 pm 
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Just got this from my dear friend, Carlos Ciriza.

I have forwarded to Bob Campbell for his opinion.

http://www.facebook.com/n/?van.canna.1% ... omcast.net

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:48 am 
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Image

Quote:
Dear Sensei Van

have opportunities to consult Sensei R. Campbell, to see if this has any degree of accuracy?

Zheng Bu Su (also known as Zheng Xianji (郑仙纪, 1854-1929)) was one of the most famous masters (5th Generation) who opened a school in Fuzhou and had taught many
disciples however many became associated with the
Taiping Tianguo uprisings and during the tme Zheng Xianji reduced his teachings in favor of conducting revolutionary activities. In his later years, his most well known disciple was Zhou Zi He (周子和,) also know in Japanese as Shushiwa.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:07 am 
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Dear Carlos,

Bob Campbell sensei reports that without the proper documentation of where any photos and any claims of a Shushiwa_originate from...it is impossible to research such allegations.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:58 am 
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Bob Campbell wrote
Quote:
2nd Picture of Shushiwa_
100% correct for the period 1900's, China, male, elder, Chinese man
100% correct r/e clothing, shoes, room decor, head dress which is typical of a elder man sporting a Que.....

Zero proof its Shushiwa

Does this man look like a person that could hold two other men, one on each of his arms, using only his Fingers ??

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