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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Location: Nagahama Okinawa
jorvik wrote:
Hi Seizan, my post wasn't directed at anyone particularly.


Hi! Sorry if I gave that impression; I didn't feel you were singling anyone out or aiming at any particular style of performance. Excellent post!

Via Mr. Elkins' article, one can see how difficult and complex it is to verbalize a concept or feeling, vs. just "doing it". If you asked Vincent to write a book of instructions on "How to Paint What a Master Feels" he'd just laugh - then go paint another masterpiece.

And so the debate regarding what is "right and wrong" in Sanchin has gone on for decades, because what folks may be trying to express is a feeling or concept, not a simple mechanical process. And everyone "feels" Sanchin a little bit differently.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Well from my perspective no I disagree.....you can have an opinion of art but not of science, science just is...take it or leave it, and I don't want to argue with anyone about this it's just my opinion,. there are certain things which are down to our own psychi, our own makeup, which others can reproduce with instruction..but there are other things which are physically so, that don't require interpretation or understanding, they just are what they are.one way of moving is superior to another........walking is better than crawling in some circumstances, and the same with kata........if you look at it purely as a physical thing...as to painting a masterpiece , well that is hard to really debate.unless it is done with some form of draughtsmanship, when we look at art a lot can be down to personal taste, but draughtmanship we can judge....and again,maybe then we can move on but with that as a base and interpret more :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:21 am 
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Good points.

My opinion, feel free to discard...

Science or art? I think it's a combination. It depends on how one is taught and what one feels. One gets out of it what one puts into it.

In some cases, I think science and art can be interchangeable terms. The Art of War. The Science of Tactics. I can get a Masters of Science in Art Therapy, etc. Take your pick for a book title (you'll find them both if you look): The Art of Karate / The Science of Karate...

I think it's all personal viewpoint. Hard to argue about what is art...

Is there a gold standard for Sanchin? One's gold might well be another's brass.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:14 am 
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The discursive 'arguments' about 'proper sanchin' and 'sanchin objectives' can be mind boggling at times, given the myriad of opinions by well learned practitioners.

So what is the 'final objective' of sanchin as it relates to overall Uechi practice?

And what is the 'intended objective' of the Uechi system in dealing with a 'gutter' street fight?

And how do we really determine these objectives coming to fruition?

In the end, how can we tell and really test our ability to unleash powerful stopping blows while being interfered with, tossed off balance, jostled about and hit by one or multiple opponents in a street fight?

Many students ask these questions, what are the answers?

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Van


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Marcus writes
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Hi Van, excellent thread. Thanks to all the contributors.

Please thank Seizan , I identify with his take , I also found his reasoning behind the other kata and their attributes a logical one , and the best reason for the extra forms I have heard yet , always informative.

Ray's opinion is probably shared by many and not invalid, I personally find the nature of the form brings you too obey the alignments and physics.

Words are often inadequate, I don't recommend ignoring the form, just that departures from it and errors are often more to do with missing balance harmonious motion than errors in technical mimicry.

Of course good instruction, understanding and patience are always helpful, but I find approached correctly the nature of the Kata to point you towards your most efficient, and therefore the most natural you.

Deviations must fit Sanchin if your honest to the work, they change or are dismissed, and each step brings you further.

While there is an undeniable alignment and physical element, its a complicated matter, its definitely the place to start, but so much more complex than a simple model can give us, Sanchin to me lets us learn about ourselves beyond our preconceptions, there is art in movement, everyone is different and so should their sanchin, the mechanics and levers, the muscular development, the postural chains and tension chains, all differ, yes there is science :)

Most never reach the stage where they realize their body feel, their mindset and their postural habits can even be different than they are.
How we feel about our practice can have a huge impact on our physicality, how we think, our feeling state, our body being.

Because of the balance and nature of the form there's real feedback, an opportunity to find a datum of self.

Of course this is really a personal journey, and perspectives and opinions will vary.

Words don't do any of it justice , but I am glad I wrote the piece , as I have learnt from the contributions.

I have done over forty forms, but none but Sanchin has captured this feedback for me.

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Van


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:02 pm 
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I think that we are approaching this from two different viewpoints. How does Sanchin affect us, i.e as a dynamic body tensing method to develop strength and vitality or....what affect can we have on others when we do Sanchin. It is the second approach that I was focusing on.like in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm_eo8wZ_9s


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