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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:29 am 
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Hello all,

With respect to everyone, the quote sent by Carlos does not state this 2nd photo is of Shuu Shiwa, but a teacher of Shuu Shiwa.

"Zheng Bu Su (also known as Zheng Xianji (郑仙纪, 1854-1929) was one of the most famous masters (5th Generation) who opened a school in Fuzhou and had taught many disciples ... [snip] ... In his later years, his most well known disciple was Zhou Zi He (周子和,) also known in Japanese as Shushiwa."

As I read it, there was no claim that this was another photo of Shuu.

For Fred, if we are talking about the same photo, the writing on the back of the photo (or drawing reproduction of a photo) of Shuu Shiwa says:

"To (or, Presented to):
North American Uechi Ryu Karate Association Mr. Joo Gee (George) Teacher.
Martial Arts Association of Fuzhou
Vice President Mr. Li Yiduan
March 19 (or 29, the kanji is unclear) 1984"

I have a clear photograph of the writing and a superimposed translation I will send to Canna Sensei tonight after I finish teaching school.

Wasn't the original that was seen on Thompson Island given to Mattson Sensei?


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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Good points Seizan, thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:04 pm 
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My apologies, I erred. The writing I have from the photo is on the front of the picture, not the back.


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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:46 pm 
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following the link which can pull data and Shushiwa Master, went to:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Shushiwa/207245362653522

There I found this:

http://www.baike.com/wiki/%E4%B8%8A%E5%9C%B0%E5%AE%8C%E6%96%87

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Maybe Seizan can translate this for us, Carlos...

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:28 pm 
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From Gordi:
Quote:
Dear Canna Sensei,

As promised...

However, this writing was on the front of the photo, not the back. Not sure
now what Freed saw, or even if it was the same photo. Or maybe Fred thought
the writing was on the back.

Regards



Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
Maybe Seizan can translate this for us, Carlos...


The Baike Wiki page and the Shushiwa Facebook page are much the same; the Facebook page is likely just a copy of the Wiki. There is a very brief history of Kanbun Sensei and UechiRyu, and the same interview with Mabuni and Kanbun Sensei. Nothing new or different from what has been known and posted for many years.

Sumako adds that the name "Joo Gee" (in the kanji I sent) is followed by "Matta-son". George Mattson.


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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:18 am 
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Hello,
I was not on Thompsons in 84 but the fact that the photo had writing on it was told to me.
I was told it was copied in a police lab (this was 84) and given out to participants at camp.

I don't want to say who without permission from them.
But any new bit of information that comes out is good.

F.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:40 pm 
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My question is .... is this person, Wu Zheng Sun (Also known as Zheng Xianji (郑 仙 纪, 1854-1929), was Master Shushiwa???

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:31 pm 
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"Zheng Bu Su (also known as Zheng Xianji (郑仙纪, 1854-1929) was one of the most famous masters (5th Generation) who opened a school in Fuzhou and had taught many disciples ... [snip] ... In his later years, his most well known disciple was Zhou Zi He (周子和,) also known in Japanese as Shushiwa."

Hi Carlos,

I don't think anyone can really know for sure based on the information and photo supplied.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:27 am 
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This link shows a different story as to how the photo was received.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C28E2tB1sT8
F.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Here's something very interesting sent to me by Steve Banchic of the Okinawan Karate Club in Stoughton Ma.

Quote:
Uechi Kanbun & das chinesische Boxen um 1900

Translated to English by one of our newest students at the OKC who happens to be from Germany working in the US as a nanny.

Translated:

Uechi Kanbun & Chinese Boxing around the year 1900

Published on Monday, September 15th, 2008

Unquestioned, Chinese Boxing (Ch’üan-Fa) had a great influence on the development of Karate. Uechi Kanbun (1877-1948), born in Okinawa, moved to China in 1897, where he got to know Chinese Boxing. A student named Mabuni interviewed Uechi and published the conversation 1934 in a version of the journal "Forschungen zur Leeren Hand". In this conversation, Uechi talks about his experiences with Chinese Boxing around 1900 as a witness.

This is my translation of the interview:

A conversation about Boxing

By Student Mabuni

One day I visited a certain student of the city Wakayama, Higashikashi-Cho.
The first thing that caught my attention on this journey was the following sign:

Pangainun-Ryu
Karate-Teacher
Kyoshi Uechi Kanbun

That's right, Mr. Uechi moved to China when he was in his twenties! In this country he studied a pure Chinese type of Boxing [Ch’üan-Fa] for 13 years and he came back as a master in it. I admired the fact that even his sign had a chinese style.

That's why I delayed the duty I actually had come for. I thought I would love to hear something about my beloved Boxing. So I visited Mr. Uechi's dojo. Since he fortunately was home, our interview covered also the art of Chinese Boxing after some other topics . In the following I will recite the conversation.

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Quote:
"Master, does boxing in China still prosper?"
"At the time I've been there, it was extraordinarily popular and therefore it will most certainly still be popular."

"Is a Chinese willing to teach you Boxing when you ask him to right away?"
"They do! But if there is no final vow from both of them after two or three days, they stop teaching."
"How come?"

"People who want to train Boxing go to a house of a Boxing master and ask for training. If the master agrees, the people who are being trained will get together and open a dojo. From that moment on the master will guide them. Hosting a festival for gods in the dojo, they prepare several meals.

Afterwards they take final vows between master and students. At first the master trains the minds of their students, later he teaches them the Kata.

For that time, the students sign a contract with the master, for like one, two, three or five years, while they're training. If you have an outstanding master, you will train for 15 years, if you have a weaker master, you will train for one year or just 6 months!

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Quote:
By opening a dojo, you take a risk of attracting dojo-destroyer (Dojo-Yaburi)!

Criminals called dojo-destroyer approach the dojo in groups of two or three people and challenge the master to fight.

If the master loses, the dojo-destroyer will get all of his monthly income! That's why he wouldn't open a dojo if he hadn't a lot of self-confidence in his abilities, would he?"

"Oh, those people seem to be barbarian!"

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 Post subject: Re: SHUSHIWA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Quote:
"No doubt about that! On the other hand, it's a nice thing to practice and to go into business for yourself. Also on the street or in other public places, the boxers practice and let other people watch them doing their Kata. And if there's a master within the people walking by, it is said that he will correct the mistakes in your Kata."

"There is differences between the Japanese style of boxing and the Chinese style, isn't there?"
"Yes, there is."

"What's stronger in chinese style: The fist or the fingertips?"
"Japanese are strong with their fists, Chinese are strong with their fingertips."

"How to they strengthen their fingertips?"

"At the beginning you fill a box with sand. In this box you practice striking with your fingertips. If they've become stronger, you change to a box filled with big beans. If you're able to do that, your fingertips are considered strong. In china they call the fighting technique with fists Tai-Tsu and the technique with fingertips Lohan."

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