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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:07 pm 
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It must be a very seductive thing to be a Lefty--never being held accountable for ones actions, being protected by the media--no matter what you do the only folks that cover it in-depth are right-wing talk radio and 1 out of 3 networks. Never having to explain yourself to your own base--they won't ask and if they do they will "buy" anything you tell them.

Its kind of a tribal worldview. Those "of the tribe" can do no wrong and those not of the tribe can never be correct. No matter what.

Look at the whole "tax fairness" trope--according to the Left everyone must pay their "fair share"..........great sound bite, looks good on a bumper sticker and sounds powerful when you say it with that holier than thou attitiude.

But what about:

-Investors Business Daily reports that 36 of the Obama's executive staff own over $800,000 in back taxes. to quote
"These people working for Mr. Fair Share apparently haven't paid any share, let alone their fair share.

You would think that would be an issue for the President and those that support him--but nope. You might think that the President and those around him might be a little embarressed by their failure to meet the basic standards they demand from everyone else...but again, nope.

Its also worth mentioning that the Presidents 437 aides pull down more than $37 million a year--not exactly chump change. 1/3 of them make more than 100K a year with 21 of them pulling down $172K.

Turning to IRS data:

-100,000 Federal workers and contractors owe over $1 billion dollars in unpaid Federal Taxes.

Maybe the President could start with getting Federal workers and contractor to pay their "fair share."

How about John Kerry--currently on the short list for a major promotion---he certainly mans up and pays his "fair share"........right?

The Boston Herald reported back in 2010 that the mega-rich Kerry, whom repeatdly voted to raise other peoples taxes BTW, "dodged a whooping six-figure state tax bill on his multimillion-dollar yacht by moorring her in New Port Rhode Island."

Of course the President addressed Kerry's "do as I say, not as I do" behavior.......not.

Of course his Lefty base was up in arms over "one of their own" outright attempt to cheat paying his "fair share?".......not so's you'd notice. Nor has his attempt to cheat paying his "fair share" seem have hurt his chances of getting promoted by the President.

Gotta love being a Lefty. ;)

Lets not forget Chalie Rangel--back in 2009 WSJ reported that he "forgot" to pay 75K in taxes on a home he owns in Dominincan Republic. He also "forgot" that the developer of his DR home had converted Rangels $52,000 mortgage into an interest-free loan.

Again, you would think the President and his "tax fairness" and "pay your fair share" base would be up in arms over such absentmindedness---but nope Rangel still has his job.

Or how about Jim Sinegal--co-founder and former CEO of Costco. Big supporter of the President and even a major speaker at the DNC convention for the 2012 election--he of course takes the issue of "tax fairness" and "paying one share" to heart?

As you may have guessed, not so much.

The WSJ is reporting that Sinegal is pushing for a special dividend for Costco shareholders totalling some $3 billion dollars.
It's important that this dividend be paid now because it will be taxed at the current rate of 15% instead of next years rate of 43-44%, plus another 3.8% in Obamacare surcharges.

Oh, he also plans to "borrow" the $3.5 billion dollars he needs to finance the payout.

Also worth mentioning that Sinegal will personally pocket some $14 million dollars--which at the 15% rate means he will get to keep roughly $12 million bucks instead of the 8 or so he might get in 2013.

Another Lefty geting all preachy and pious over "shared sacrifice" while he runs to the bank with his loot.

And is the media, his base and the President ripping him apart for doing so?????

Hey, he a fellow Lefty...so you all you get is the sound of crickets chirpping.

Like I said, its very seductive being a Lefty.

But still you would think that at least someone one the oh-so-easily-outraged Left would be up in arms over these kinds of issues.

But nope, just crickets.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:38 pm 
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HH I feel your pain. I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that we are indeed an entitlement nation now. Per the election only by about 53/47 Percent but that's enough to get elected. And with that entitlement mentality, there comes a definite need to protect that philosophy. At all costs. Ergo, the vast majority of media outlets have a liberal bias. Politicians, no matter what side of the aisle they come from, are only as accountable to the masses as the media holds them. I used to think that the vast majority of the "masses", the "rank and file" "little man" so to speak were conservative at heart. That they did believe in saving, honesty, respect, hard work ethics and such. I'm convinced now that that's simply not the case. Look at the average intelligence of the average pupil in school. Look at the attitudes that younger people have today (and by that I mean up 40 years old) and you'll see that they don't talk to each other with much respect any more. The older generations that believed in and taught respect for elders, respect for law enforcement (and yes I know they're not all perfect), basic respect for our judicial system, these folks are dying off and they're not being replaced in kind. Each generation that passes seems to slip farther away from these ideals. Look how many people want to work less for more money. So you remove ethics, honest and respect from society and what do you get. You get what you pay for. I watched the media coverage of this last election cycle. People were amazed at the negativity of the ads. Not me, I saw it as the normal way people treat each other now.

Now I must ad the caveat that this is not "everyone" and there "are" good and decent hard working people. But they don't control the media, nor the social media, so if their message isn't preached in the homes and schools then the majority of the folks (at least 53 percent) only live in a realm where the left media/social media outlets matter.

PS: That was one of the things that I loved so much about good martial arts. It taught those things. Respect, honesty, hard work, self improvement, self reliance. And that to me is one reason that "good" martial arts are really needed nowadays. Maybe more than ever.

Rant over
Steve


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:49 pm 
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Thankfully I have people like my friends Justin and Glenn to offer "alternate" viewpoints. We wouldn't want folks to think this is a one-size-fits-all opinion forum. :P

That said, most of what's written here - while driven by unmistakeable political points of view - is both true and troubling.

What we have with the impending Obamacliff is an abhorrent Democrat party ploy.

Several centuries ago, Vilfredo Pareto observed that 20 percent of the people in Italy owned 80 percent of the wealth. The distribution held across all the economies in Europe that he studied. So where do the political champions of the underdogs go with this statistical Law of Nature (a.k.a. the Bradford distribution)? They beat the drums of class warfare. It's a statistical numbers game. Dehumanize and demonize the smartest and hardest working people in society - those that have achieved the upper two percent earning status - and then we can throw them to the wolves. We use euphemisms like "pay their fair share" to couch what's really going on - an economic raping of a minority class. It's no different than what societies have done in the past to "dehumanize" their opposition in war. That leads to mass atrocities like Auschwitz (gas the money-grubbing Jews) and Nanking (rape and exterminate the Chinese dogs).

But of course this is being driven by an "intellectual elite" (sic) so it must be just, right? No... it is not. And when you look at the discrepancy between the "what I say" and the "what I do", well then the sociopathy rears its ugly head.

Keep on keeping on, gentlemen. The king wears no clothes. Let's sunburn his nastyass with the disinfecting light of day.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:57 pm 
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"Keep on keeping on, gentlemen. The king wears no clothes. Let's sunburn his nastyass with the disinfecting light of day." LOL never heard that line before......... 8O :D

Steve


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Quote
"Several centuries ago, Vilfredo Pareto observed that 20 percent of the people in Italy owned 80 percent of the wealth. The distribution held across all the economies in Europe that he studied. So where do the political champions of the underdogs go with this statistical Law of Nature (a.k.a. the Bradford distribution)? They beat the drums of class warfare. It's a statistical numbers game. Dehumanize and demonize the smartest and hardest working people in society - those that have achieved the upper two percent earning status - and then we can throw them to the wolves. We use euphemisms like "pay their fair share" to couch what's really going on - an economic raping of a minority class. It's no different than what societies have done in the past to "dehumanize" their opposition in war. That leads to mass atrocities like Auschwitz (gas the money-grubbing Jews) and Nanking (rape and exterminate the Chinese dogs).

I have to disagree with that Bill, it's the middle class who are getting soaked. Look at Corzine when MF Global collapsed and he wasn't prosecuted. Why was that..could it be because he was Obama's fundraiser, and look who his lawyer was Bill Clinton on $20,000 an hour. You don't have capitalism in the US anymore you have corporate fasiscm . The fiscal cliff is nothing, they have known about it for ages. The real problem is the massive debt, and the even greater debt created by the shadow banking system


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:29 am 
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jorvik wrote:
I have to disagree with that Bill, it's the middle class who are getting soaked. Look at Corzine when MF Global collapsed and he wasn't prosecuted. Why was that..could it be because he was Obama's fundraiser, and look who his lawyer was Bill Clinton on $20,000 an hour. You don't have capitalism in the US anymore you have corporate fasiscm . The fiscal cliff is nothing, they have known about it for ages. The real problem is the massive debt, and the even greater debt created by the shadow banking system

Do not confuse fairness of our tax system with all the other things you're writing about here. It's apples and oranges.

Bill


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Sorry about that if it sounds confused :oops: but in the UK socialism always has the moral high ground, you are somehow considered nicer if you are a socialist, and yet when you look at socialist politicians they do very well for themselves, every bit as well as those nasty conservatives. Tony Bliar is a multi millionare as is Gordon Brown, though my country's finances have been ruined under their care and it happened once before when the socialists were in power and we had to go to the IMF for a bailout.
This is what will happen in the US or something similar :(


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:15 pm 
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."


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jorvik wrote:
This is what will happen in the US or something similar :(

Actually probably not.

The best thing that can happen with the impending Obamacliff is the very gridlock we see. Doing nothing sometimes is the best action. The problem involves all Americans, and the voted-on impending fiscal cliff will hit all Americans. And when it does, people will sort out how they really want to share the burden. Thankfully we have a divided government and a separation of powers so that no minority group can be discriminated against in the process.

We are not Greece, we are not Spain, we are not the UK before The Iron Lady, and we aren't Germany either. We have our own ways of doing things.

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"The Americans will always do the right thing… after they've exhausted all the alternatives."



- Bill


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:56 pm 
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When we go over the fiscal cliff, the press will hang it over Republicans' necks like an albatross.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:56 pm 
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I hope it works out,because it impacts everyone, in the UK and Europe as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:00 pm 
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Jason Rees wrote:
When we go over the fiscal cliff, the press will hang it over Republicans' necks like an albatross.

To what end?

It'll be two years before Congressional elections. By then the consequences of it all will have had time to sort out. And when/if people are hurting, the reality will become more apparent.

jorvik wrote:
I hope it works out,because it impacts everyone, in the UK and Europe as well.

As it should. In a global economy, we're all invested in each other's fates. And to that end... Obama's luster overseas may begin to fade quickly if the Obama economy faulters.

Don't forget the role of China in the long run. They are an important sleeping dragon player in this whole game. They've invested much in us (through loans to Uncle Sam) and they make money on American consumerism. And China consumption cannot make up for a drop in American consumption of Chinese goods. This will all play out in a very interesting way.

One final comment... Through all of this, there's a wild card that very well may play a role in U.S. economic destiny for years to come. The shale oil and natural gas discoveries have the potential of being a major game changer. Part of the destiny of our economy lies in the price of energy. Obama is presiding over a massive increase in energy supply, making the whole "green" business appear silly. If he insists on throwing good money after bad in "green energy projects" and continues to allow environmentalists to stymie the production and distribution of these new energy resources, then he's committing political suicide for his party. Another party rule could reverse this course, and the economy would boom. Or... Obama could turn pragmatic and just get out of the way of the energy free market. If he did that, he'd preside over a major boom in our economy. We'll see which path he chooses.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Bill

My guess is that the folks of the Left on this board will not have much to do with this topic....there is not much they can really say.

Besides, my overall point was that they of the Left are utterly silent, even about issues they claim to care deeply about, when it is one of their own.

They didn't speak out publically on any of the issues I raised when they went down--heck the Kerry thing is couple of years old for crying out loud. They may have responded to what other people had to say. But they themselves were silent.

I'm not sure that Obama will reverse himself on energy policy--as goes the saying, we could be the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, if we had the will. In any case the whole "green energy" debacle is just another screw-up that the Left supports and then when it fails, usually in incredible fashion--they refuse to own it. And the press gives them all the cover they need to do so.

Take Solyndra--would the $500 million dollars Obama wasted come in handy right now? How many hungry kids can you feed with $500 million dollars? How many disabled people can be cared for with $500 million dollars? How long could we extend unemployment benefits with $500 million dollars?

And that is just one of the "green energy" programs that Obama supported.

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Forget #6, you are now serving nonsense.

HH


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:54 pm 
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I'll respond eventually, but I'm busy these days. The short version is: tax evasion/avoidance is wrong/questionable no matter who does it. On the other hand, I've never found harping on individual politicians' sins useful here. Republicans do it too, but I never make a fuss about either side doing it because I think it's mostly a red herring.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Valkenar wrote:
I'll respond eventually, but I'm busy these days. The short version is: tax evasion/avoidance is wrong/questionable no matter who does it. On the other hand, I've never found harping on individual politicians' sins useful here. Republicans do it too, but I never make a fuss about either side doing it because I think it's mostly a red herring.

Thanks for dropping by, Justin.

My best to your family.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Val

This is exactly what I'm talking about---the President of the United States, the most powerful man in the world; a central tenent of his re-election platform. The entire DNC, the 2012 DNC Convention, dozens and dozens and dozens, of individual campaign speeches. Articles and statements almost beyond count (from the left--and yes, bit of hyperbole there)--all on tax fairness.

And Val now considers it a "red herring." ;)

Told you it was seductive being a Lefty......... :oops:

Pehaps instead of responding myself to that contention I'll just re-post the Presdent, the DNC, his re-election committe etc statements. and allow Val to argue with THEM as to how important they feel it might be. ;)

"Tax avoidence etc. is wrong no matter who does it"

Glad to hear it--now tell me/direct me to any statements you have made in the last 4 years where you expressed such a view---when someone from the Left avoids paying their "fair share."

Sure, you can respond to me/other pointing it out but when it actually goes down?

Nothing but thundering silencefrom those whom claim to care so much.

Like I said--what could we do with the cash if those that claim to care so much, also paid their "fair share." Or as the President put it--if we "spread the wealth around." ;)

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Forget #6, you are now serving nonsense.

HH


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