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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:30 pm 
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That kind of stuff is quite common. you take Liverpool they have two teams "Everton"
which is catholic and "liverpool" which is protestant.and they have their counterparts in Scotland Rangers and Celtic....even in the army if you are protestant and from liverpool then you join a Scottish regiment....i don't really understand it myself , so I may be saying some of it wrong ( I tend to get along very well with people of ethnic minorities myself......coz I treat people how they treat me, If they are nice and polite then I am also, to me that is what defines a person..you can't pick racial origin, but you can choose to be polite..being polite is the cheapest thing..............it costs nothing.you don't need to shout about honour, if you behave honouraby then you get it back.
Sadly in soccer you see stuff like this, people who are tribalists and don't just love the game for it's great skill and artistry and just see it as one army facing another.but true sportsmen see it that way and will cheer for great skill such as in the late george best


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:48 pm 
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As to what works, why and how
Quote:
Training cannot make a person anything that they don't have the potential for; likewise, lack of training will not diminish a person's potential. Based on that principle, training can make a person better at what what they already were. Anyone can learn the keys of a piano, but not everyone can be a pianist.

If you have the potential and the training, the training will rise to the occasion; if you have only the training, well, you'll probably "only be half as good as your training." I've seen this with Karate students; some of the best, cleanest techniques in the Dojo/Katas are not from the most effective fighters whereas the better fighters often don't have the "best" moves because they know what works best for them.


About sums it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:50 pm 
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I think it all boils down to the INDIVIDUAL. Some people perform really well under pressure, no matter their level of training. Some people do NOT perform well under pressure, no matter their level of training.

Which are you? Only way to really find out is to place or find yourself in a high pressure situation where you need to perform NOW.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:53 pm 
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There have been some major advances made in the the study of Training/learning, basically your performance in reality is dependant on the hard wired sub-concious 'model' you have of what to do, that model comes from your training so if it does not correspond to reality then performance will of course not be as expected.
If we are talking about CQB then we need to access the 'state' we need in a real fight and anchor our motor skills to that.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Not everyone has as strong of a survival instinct as you might think. Most criminals (our most likely opponents) DO, however. Which is why WE train as hard as we can. I'm not worried about the sheep that's going to soil themselves, roll over, give up, and die (and there are many of them). They're not a threat to me. The hardened ex-con is, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:56 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHLW0wLV0yU


Also like this guy's explaination of fear management. What do you think of his ideas on violence and mind set?


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Can't access the video, Joe.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:12 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
That kind of stuff is quite common. you take Liverpool they have two teams "Everton"
which is catholic and "liverpool" which is protestant.and they have their counterparts in Scotland Rangers and Celtic....even in the army if you are protestant and from liverpool then you join a Scottish regiment....i don't really understand it myself , so I may be saying some of it wrong ( I tend to get along very well with people of ethnic minorities myself......coz I treat people how they treat me, If they are nice and polite then I am also, to me that is what defines a person..you can't pick racial origin, but you can choose to be polite..being polite is the cheapest thing..............it costs nothing.you don't need to shout about honour, if you behave honouraby then you get it back.
Sadly in soccer you see stuff like this, people who are tribalists and don't just love the game for it's great skill and artistry and just see it as one army facing another.but true sportsmen see it that way and will cheer for great skill such as in the late george best


Very good point about 'tribalism'_ something that is more deeply embedded in our primal brain than we are willing to admit. The 'us v. them' mentality is rampant in subtle and overt manifestations, right down to the kind of cars 'we' drive vs. the cars driven by other people which has been noted as one cause of road rage.

As an example, if you drive a Chevy and are cut off in traffic by a Mercedes, you are likely to be more upset than if it had been another Chevy.

Quote:
How does tribalism take hold?
Tribalism is an evolutionary trait that we formed to keep people of like genetic material safe from threats posed by those of dis-similar genetic material. Over the years, we learned how to manipulate it through symbols, stories, and central powerful leaders in order to expand our "tribes" and make them more cohesive and powerful. Examples of this are Nationalism, Religion, Team Sports, and even brand affiliation.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:12 pm 
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When I played soccer in this country, it was at a time when ethnic groups had formed teams _ all associated in an International league, ensconced in the shadow sides of 'tribalism' … a sort of blank canvas upon which each team fraternity projected prejudices and outright hatreds as a motivational tool to despoil one another on the soccer field.

Brawls were common with opposing players as well as with fans invading the field.

'Dirty tricks' abounded, such as in one contentious game against a Latino team_ our SS Italia squad_ defeated 4-1… 'Mysterious thugs' invaded our dressing area and dumped all our clothes in the showers leaving the water running.

In another 'warring game' our goal keeper was hit in the head by a thrown brick.

Another dark side of tribalism was …that if you crossed the tribe…you were seen as a traitor and ostracized forever.

We see examples of this even in Uechi associations right along with 'outright prohibition' by some tribes' 'honchos' to even attend workouts by a different tribe…"you have all you need right here"_

Another grievous and sometimes 'comical' dark side of tribalism occurs when someone becomes some sort of a 'chief' in that 'system'…they begin to buy into their own image.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Another very serious problem is racism in soccer matches.
Quote:
For the media and public opinion, however, racism among football fans is a serious problem, and often blamed for outbreaks of violence, particularly at international matches.

In Britain, racist chanting at matches still occurs, but at nowhere near the levels it reached in the 1970s and 80s, when black players were often greeted with monkey-noises and bananas. The recent decline may be due in part to campaigns designed to combat racism, such as the 'Let's Kick Racism Out of Football' campaign.

Elsewhere in Europe – particularly in Germany and Austria – there are some indications that the problem may be more persistent. In one survey, 20% of German fans reported sympathies with the neo-Nazi movement. In many cases, however, Nazi symbols and slogans may be used purely to shock and provoke, without any underlying political conviction.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Look at the ugliness of it all.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-di ... --sow.html

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:25 pm 
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A miracle he did not lose an eye.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:09 pm 
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One of the reasons that raciscm isn't seen so much in the UK is down to anti rasisct laws. The laws IMHO were brought in not to foster better relations but to undo any sense of national identity, and indeed to punish it. In the UK if you are called a racist it's treated almost like being a murderer and you have to defend yourself against all sorts of allegations. You can be called a racist if you oppose the open door policy on immigration., so here it's not as cut and dried as you might imagine. I have also heard that these laws were devised many years ago by the people wanting a united Europe ( I heard this on Alex Jones)
And you don't have to dislike people of a different colour, if you don't like Polish or german people then they call you a rascist, and it's funny because I could guarrantee that the people making these laws have never had friends who were black or Chinese.

What is funny also is that amongst the different coloured races in the UK there is a lot of rascism , black on black crime is very prevelant............and as you so rightly say it is a form of tribalism


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:19 am 
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Try again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM68VQ5k6ko

Like his explaination of fear management


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:50 am 
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Got it, Thanks.

I have also seen him here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EowbVGFHbPY

Most excellent advice.

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