Gun rampage in Ct

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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Van Canna » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:26 am

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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby cxt » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:32 pm

Word is now that the head administrator went after the shooter bare-handed trying to protect her students.

Such courage is amazing. No telling how many kids/people she saved by slowing him down.
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Van Canna » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:59 pm

We read all kinds of 'monday morning quarterbacking' _on this...

Would any of us_ in the position of the administrator_ have wished for some type of weapon when trying to stop the shooter?

Would 'any weapon' have made a difference?
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby jorvik » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:05 pm

I've heard quite a few conspiracy theories about this, which I won't post because they may offend people, but one thing I did hear about this and the guy who did the batman shootings, is that they were both sufferring from Asperger's syndrome, and perhaps more importantly they were both on medication for it.
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Van Canna » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:01 am

I have read that Asperger's syndrome is not associated with violent acts.
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby jorvik » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:07 am

My brother in Law had ASD and he could get very violent.but it may be his medication
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Van Canna » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:49 pm

From the Globe
tragedy will always be part of the human condition. Some evils we can never hope to eliminate, not even with the best will in the world. No regulation or reform can undo all homicidal insanity. Still less can legislation guarantee universal integrity and decent character. It will always take more than law and politics to make men and women kind, honest, and moral.

None of the nostrums prescribed after this year’s shooting rampages in Connecticut and Colorado would guarantee that nothing like them will ever recur. Stringent gun laws haven’t prevented frightful massacres of students in Norway, Germany, and the United Kingdom. There were mass killings in America long before there were video games — and long before the Supreme Court ruled prayer in public school unconstitutional.

Nightmares like the one in Newtown are rare. Yet a free society cannot make them absolutely impossible and still remain free. Good laws can do a lot, but they will never abolish all human evil. For that, there is ultimately only one answer: the cultivation of human goodness.
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby robb buckland » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:48 pm

Sad how legislators will now try to push gun control legislation in the wake of this tragedy.It seems everytime some wacko acts up with a firearm the government trys to take away our rights.

Timothy McVeigh killed 600 people in the Oklahoma bombings .......I wonder if you can still buy fertalizer there ?


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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Jason Rees » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:00 pm

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it." - some dead guy

We had an assault weapons ban in 1994. Which school shootings did it stop?

Dumbest anti-gun argument ever, courtesy of Piers Morgan on CNN.
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby jorvik » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:09 pm

I'm not an American but I believe that in conneticut there are already restrictions on assault rifles. The problem with something like this is that people become too emotive, but that is entirely understandable. I can remember when it happened in my country with dunblane.
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Bill Glasheen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Van Canna wrote:I have read that Asperger's syndrome is not associated with violent acts.

Having recently (a few years ago) redone a medical classification system as the foundation for health care predictive modeling, I have a little bit of understanding of the subject.

Between the last and the current version of the medical classification system I helped revise, the one area of medicine that required the largest re-write was mental health. Talk about a "soft" science... It's evolving, but a long way off from where it will be when we have our arms around all that afflicts the mind and human behavior.

Asperger's syndrome is a constellation of conditions that falls under the broader category of autism. Some argue that it is even a single condition. So putting a label on the bad guy may help us demonize him so we can sleep at night, but it probably doesn't do justice to all that was going on here.

The bottom line is that people with this condition have brains that are wired differently. We're all unique in our own ways; those with Asperger's are just a little more unique.

I've personally known a few parents of kids with Asperger's. They can have an array of "odd" behaviors from not liking to be touched (sensory overload) to sexual promiscuity among the females.

This troubled individual grew up in a troubled environment. The parents were divorced. Mom lost her job. Mom and son were fighting.

The mother loved her gun collection, and target shooting was a passion. The thought has occurred to me that this whole act may have been a vicious lashing out against a mother that he hated. He started off murdering his mother (shot in the face) with her own gun. He then went on to murdering innocent little children with the weapons she owned and loved. He took away the ability to dig deep into his actions by first smashing his computer. He left no trace. What he did leave however was a world angry at his mother's hobby. Ponder that.

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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Van Canna » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:44 pm

Good post Bill. We also read that the mother had some sort of mental issues.

Do you have any idea what 'specifically' was the reason why he hated his mother so deeply? What could have been the reasons given what you write about the kid's odd behavior?

And the mother was not 'all there' to start with...in more ways I can imagine.

She was having trouble with the kid…yet she could not foresee the danger in leaving the weapons accessible?

First thing one should do when living with a disturbed person, is to get rid of weapons readily accessed.

She wasn't too swift…I guess.

The world being angry is understandable, until something bad happens to them that could possibly have been avoided with some means of effective defensive tool. Something that happened to my cousin once when home invaders forced their way into their home, shooting his 12 years old daughter in the head...while he desperately looked around for a weapon to repeal the invaders.

And after the killing of his daughter...his Russian wife, abandoned him, blaming him for the terrible fate of their daughter.

A coworker once asked me if i had experienced any deaths in the family. At the time I had not.

He then said "then you will not be able to understand the sorrow and sadness..until it does..."
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Bill Glasheen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:05 pm

Van

I wouldn't want to start untangling this Gordian knot without more information. However I think there are some valid points on the table here.

  • The son had baseline mental health issues. This included an inability to relate to others in a "normal" way. From what I know about Aspberger's these individuals have an inability to understand normal social boundaries. One girl I knew would go up to a stranger in public and insist that person be introduced to her mom. And again... they sometimes can experience sensory overload. For instance they may have problems with someone brushing their hair. The scalp sensation may be too much. Most importantly, such individuals can show a limited empathy towards their peers. In other words, they may not fully comprehend harm to others the way most people would.
    ...
  • There was a divorce. The first casualty of a divorce is the mental health of the children involved.
    ...
  • The mom had firearms in the home of a "troubled" young man that quite obviously were not properly secured. Easy access to a Bushmaster rifle? Really? Can you say stupid? Perhaps everything was locked up, but if so then the key wasn't properly secured. Every firearm I own is in a gun safe that can be opened in seconds... by me and only me - without a key.

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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Van Canna » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:01 pm

Good points Bill.

The mind can be an hellacious grinding crater ...

Welcome to Dante's Inferno...

http://danteworlds.laits.utexas.edu/index2.html
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Re: Gun rampage in Ct

Postby Van Canna » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:10 pm

http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter ... e-officer/

As many police officers do, I have certain holiday traditions that help me to shift myself from thoughts of work to more pleasant thoughts of friends and family. One of my traditions is simple: I spend one of my days off going from store to store, doing the bulk of my Christmas shopping while enjoying the holiday decorations and ever-present Christmas carols.

On Friday as I prepared to walk out the door and begin my holiday ritual, I paused. After a moment of thought, I walked back to my desk where I picked up my badge and gun, neither of which is generally a part of my holiday shopping. As I clipped on my badge and holstered my gun, it became clear how different the world was.

A few hours earlier as I logged on to my computer to take care of some long-overdue writing before I went out, I learned that a small Connecticut town had become the latest victim of a horrific mass shooting.

As a police officer in Aurora, Colorado — a city that is only just beginning to recover from one of the largest mass shootings in the history of the United States — the news stopped me in my tracks.

But I wasn’t shocked that it had happened. I wasn’t in a state of disbelief. I was outraged that it had happened again, and that many more families were now mourning the senseless loss of their loved ones. I thought back to the first such incidents in my adult life — one in Arkansas and another in Colorado — and I wondered when it was ever going to stop.

As I drove from one store to another, I realized that instead of listening to a radio station that was playing continuous holiday music, I was instead listening to a different station that was dedicating the day to live coverage of the tragedy — most of which was filled by commentators, investigative reporters, and self-proclaimed experts on one topic or another that sought to explain what had happened in some way.

I found myself just as angry at one senator who immediately called for increased gun control legislation as I was at another senator who stated that the entire incident would have been prevented if even one law-abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit had been present to stop the assailant.

I wondered to myself how devoid of any common decency these two — and so many more like them — must be to use the victims for political posturing while they likely still lay where they had been murdered.

Soon after that, I found my anger growing as an acquaintance or relative of the alleged suspect made a public statement that he suffered from autism and had not always received the help he needed, as if this somehow explained his actions.

Then I found myself at a boiling point when I heard the relative of a survivor comment that they believed their loved one had escaped death because God had a plan for them, as though they felt God had no plans whatsoever for the innocent victims who were only at the beginning of their young lives.

Morning slipped into afternoon as the stream of politicians, commentators and subject-matter experts continued their minute-by-minute coverage of the tragedy, and eventually I found that I could no longer listen to it even though I felt I needed to.

It was only then, when my anger subsided and a sense of clarity returned to me, that I realized I was angry that our world has become a place where someone can find a reason — any reason — to direct mass-violence at innocent children.

That people seek to explain, theorize or justify something that is without any possible justification. That politicians on every side seem compelled to use the deaths of innocent children to further their own political agendas. And that despite the best efforts of schools, citizens and the law enforcement community, another such horrific crime will doubtlessly occur in the near future and again after that.

On Friday, December 14, 2012, as I was enjoying a cup of morning coffee and preparing to begin my Christmas tradition, the lives of at least 27 families were changed forever by a senseless act of violence that defies explanation.

As a member of the law enforcement community — a group comprised of fathers and mothers, husbands and wives, uncles and aunts, friends and relatives — my thoughts and prayers are with the residents of Newtown, Connecticut, the students and faculty of Sandy Hook Elementary School, the victims and their families.

Just as I realize that the world has changed during my lifetime, I hope and pray that it can change once more and return to a place where no such tragedy will ever take place again.
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