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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Tanks for posting this, Josann.

Pretty hard to argue with Lee's conceptual views of street violence and the 'functionality' of TMA's toolbox in that context. Not that TMA's skills...conditioning...and individual techniques are not useful on the street, as he points out...

Listening to him, makes one wonder what one is really learning while attending many of our monthly workouts...regional workouts et.

What do we see there? It seems to be always the same ...along our traditional dojo workouts...

Nobody there really teaching the aspects of confrontations that Lee vocalizes... and how could they...could we...if we don't study them.


http://urbancombatives.com/m_intro/about.htm


Quote:
Anyone who has been in a real blood-and-snot, violent confrontation will know what I am talking about. Thirty seconds on the street is worth three years in the dojo any day of the week. Multiply that by a lot and you, too, would have approached similar conclusions to my own and those of better men before me. Those conclusions are the result of a combination of active learning from my own experience, and from those who I have trained with and aspire to, as well as thousands of hours spent travelling, training, reading and studying - sorting the wheat from the chaff. And believe me when I say there is a serious amount of chaff within the martial arts world that is being passed off as effective and workable self-defence

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:19 pm 
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I wonder why people think that night club bouncers are knowledgeable about violence or self defence ? .in my country they needed to be licenced because there were too many unsavoury charachters in the business, beating up teenage drunks etc.personnally I would prefer to learn from somebody like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iJ_J88D ... watch-vrec he looks like nothing, and yet boy can he move 8)

in the UK if I want to train there is so much better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUeB-RlRX9o


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:42 pm 
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I don't really look at who someone is...as much as at the concepts he espouses and teaches,aside from any tool box he may possess. Examples are a Rory Miller who was a prison guard.

Any kind of 'technique' has a way to become very limited in usefulness if not applied in 'functionality' under the circumstances, and in concert with what the body/mind will allow be functional under the adrenaline induced stress.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:19 pm 
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But don't we always fit that to our expecatations, often without knowing this. I once told my wife that gun crime was really low in our area, because we just never saw any on the unit that I worked on, I thought it had totally gone away, but my wife replied well ( She is a nurse) we have two wards of people with gunshot wounds.They collected their data in a different way than we did. After that I always questioned the validity of what I knew, and more importantly what other people were telling me, what agenda they had.are they selling courses ,books? whatever.
Really martial arts are a hobby, I worry more about my investments these days..if folks want to make a buck that's ok.but I like to know.I doubt that I will ever be in a position to use what I know.but I don't make a living out of it :wink: .so in my books it may be wrong but it's totally honest


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:04 am 
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I wonder why so many gun shootings in the UK if guns are not allowed...where do they come from?

Also why no 'self defense' is really allowed as Lee Morrison explains it.

Again It makes no difference to me if people make a buck out of any teaching they do, if in fact whatever they teach conforms to valid concepts of confrontations, and of what the body allows one to do under the chemical cocktail regardless of what techniques they know.

A good read on this are the two books from Rory Miller...meditations on violence_ and facing violence. Written by a person who has been there against convicts on a daily basis, and whose concepts have been accepted by police and the military fighting a war in Iraq here he has been to teach front line soldiers.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:12 am 
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Morrison
Quote:
This is why I am drawn to the methods of Western Combatives. My training is very much influenced by people who have tested their systems under the pressure of reality - be this in 'live' situations, dynamic simulation and scenario training, or a combination of both. In short, the people who know that what they have will stand up without hesitation or indecision at the moment of truth.


From the likes of Fairbain and Sykes pressure testing their 'Defendu' system in the violent streets of 1920's Shanghai, to the methods of veteran Coventry doorman Geoff Thompson, who learned what worked for him in some of the worst establishments in the 'neon environment' and on the mat of his dojo during hundreds of his legendary Animal Day sessions.


This makes sense to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:09 pm 
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"I wonder why so many gun shootings in the UK if guns are not allowed...where do they come from?"

Well I'll say something here which you may not know, and which nearly got me banned from another forum .There are restrictions on guns in the UK.but in one part of the UK you can legally carry a handgun and for the sole purposes of self defence. Now not many peolple know this.so choose your "Experts" carefully :wink:

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"Also why no 'self defense' is really allowed as Lee Morrison explains it."

Well he is not an expert on law, he just has an opinion.Even with law qualifications you don'y really understand the law until you work with it, that is why I am always very,very sceptical about folks who have not worked within the legal field, law enforcement or the courts .
What everyone should ask is how this "Expert" became an expert.
I can honestly say that I've seen more bouncers on the other side of the law, rather than on the right side


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Quote:
There are restrictions on guns in the UK.but in one part of the UK you can legally carry a handgun and for the sole purposes of self defence. Now not many peolple know this.so choose your "Experts" carefully


Let's forget the 'experts' argument once and for all and stick to the facts.

1. Where in England, specifically, can a citizen carry on his person a handgun for self defense?

2. And are those persons carefully screened before a license to carry is granted?

3. And what percentage of those people have actually used the guns to shoot in self defense?

4. The gunshot injuries or death your wife tells you about as a nurse...
are those shootings caused by the licensed owners or by criminals with guns?

5. Where would a criminal get a handgun in England?

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:10 pm 
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This from UK gun dealers

http://www.gundealer.net/rules.htm

Quote:
Post 1997 rule changes

From 1997, firearm and shotgun certification became more stringent. Among the extra hurdles added, people who now apply for Firearms Certificates have to provide two referees, and the police are able to revoke a Firearms Certificate in cases where the holder no longer has a good reason to possess firearms or ammunition.

Certain types of firearm are hard to obtain in Britain without a stringent Home Office licence. These include automatic weapons and most handguns.


Ray,

Would you have any link to UK laws that allow certain people in certain areas to own and carry handguns?

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:16 pm 
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http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 618AAVVKvD

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There is only one answer and that is quite simple, you cannot. I take it you mean a hand gun. There is no way that you can get a permit for a hand gun for the simple reason the Brits are not permitted to own them. You can of course apply for a Firearms certificate that will enable you to own a rifle, but the requirements are quite onerous. You have to have access to land and or belong to a recognized shooting club. The other alternative is to own a shot gun. The requirements for a shotgun certificate are quite easy and you stand a good chance of getting one. All of the above is dependent on you having a clean police record and that you do not take psychotropic medicines and that you do not have a drink problem.


Ray,

Do the police carry guns in the UK? If not, I'd be interested in knowing the reason for it.

How does a British policeman handle deadly force situations, where he is confronted with sudden gun or knife violence?

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Here is some information on the question:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398

Quote:
But to most inhabitants of the UK - with the notable exception of Northern Ireland - it is a normal, unremarkable state of affairs that most front-line officers do not carry guns.

Unremarkable, that is, until unarmed officers like Nicola Hughes and Fiona Bone are killed in the line of duty. There are always those who question why Britain is out of step with most of the rest of the world, with the exceptions of the Republic of Ireland, New Zealand, Norway and a handful of other nations.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Ray, I am also interested to know which specific gun dealers around London, carry handguns for sale.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Quote:
I can honestly say that I've seen more bouncers on the other side of the law, rather than on the right side


Ray, once again, lets not talk about the man, but the concepts which he espouses and teaches.

Review the concepts he talks and writes about...and get a discussion going on what's right or wrong with them.

This is how we learn.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Van.
This may be a bit long winded..note I said the UK not England, that does make a difference, However possibly not in the way you may think.
The united kingdom comprises England ,Wales currently Scotland , the Isle of Mann, and Northern Ireland.
In northern Ireland you may carry a handgun for self defence.
here is an extract from the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... rn-ireland

and again here

http://www.thedetail.tv/issues/116/fire ... -held-guns

It's hard to find all the details and I only became aware of it some time ago when I spoke to somebody from NI , he was on a forum talking about a Glock that he owned, When he said this I was shocked only to have this comfirmed by a Law Proffessor on the same forum. It doesn't say on this actual article..although the Guardian is a socialist rag

But just think about it. Where has all the gun violence,sectarian killings with firearms occured. In Northern Ireland, and yet the one place in the UK that they are not banned!!
{People say that there is no gun crime in the UK.....yet in the one place known for gun crime they are allowed to carry guns :?

Now as to guns in the UK that you can own now. You can own a rifle, a shotgun........in Northern Ireland and the isle of mann a pistol or revolver, and in the rest of the UK a black powder revolver or a Long revolver..like his one in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIIql_VhENA


Why was there no hue and cry when handguns were banned in the UK? well basically people, except a small minority, don't shoot and have no interest in shooting. Even then some people objected, because it restricted the rights of a very small minority who were closely regulated anyway.

There were rumours at the time that the Dunblane massacre ,caused by a paedophile with handguns which led to the ban was a smoke screen used by the then government, because Hamilton, the killer was rumoured to be closely associated with certain members of the Labour party.so the rumour went at the time the party was disliked and discreditted for wanting to go to was with Iraq and would have lost power. the government placed a 100 years ban on anybody having access to the reports about the shooting.look here

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/blair_protection.html

We are just hearing now of a paedophile ring in the UK. known by the BBC for 10 years.I wonder if there is any connection?


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:04 pm 
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from a quick search

Ryan Powell




Resolved Question
Show me another »
Can i legally purchase and own these guns in Northern Ireland?

Please be aware that i intend to purchase these said firearms when i am 18 years old and completely legally, if the law in Northern Ireland permits it.

Semi Automatic Beretta 92 Handgun?
Semi Automatic M1 Carbine Rifle?
Semi Automatic Type 56 Rifle?
Beretta Silver Pigeon I O/U Shotgun?
Colt Python Revolver (either 4", 6" or 8" barrel)?
Semi Automatic Glock 17 Handgun?
1 year ago
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Additional Details

and everyone PLEASE know that Mainland Britain's are in some cases, drastically different than Northern Ireland's gun laws! for instance, it is legal to carry a concealed firearm on your person, loaded, any time, without a permit. PLEASE try and educate on this before posting!

1 year ago

Mainland Britain and Northern Ireland actually have very different gun laws. The reason why I keep asking these questions is because I never get the right answers. Semi automatic firearms and handguns ARE allowed in Northern Ireland, I don't care what anybody says. I just want to k ow if these ecific ones are. People seem to be uneducated about this topic so from now on I only want members of the N. Irelandolice force of N. Irish gun owners to answer this question, everyone else is absolutely useless.

1 year ago


look here http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 610AAoAeWx


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