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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:23 am 
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Analysis of How to Train for Reality:

Van’s forum is all about Self Defence Realities and he has been a mentor of mine for some time. He has greatly affected how I approach my training and in my wanting to attempt to prepare for the reality of violence.

The first thing I needed to do before analysing how to train for reality is to determine what that reality is for me.

Just as someone training for a sport venue must review and understand the rules and understand what will happen in the ring or cage. Fighters have been disqualified for using illegal techniques in one venue that were legal in another. Fighters that are not prepared to be on the ground quickly lose in MMA matches etc.

Understanding what you are preparing for can allow you to be better prepared for it and provide goals.

One of the best things to do if you want to prepare for reality is to order and read carefully the writings of Rory Miller. Rory has dealt with real violence and more often than I ever will in my lifetime. His writings are from a true reality base and a great bucket of cold water. Rory is also a martial artist so he speaks to what is important to martial artists.

What are you preparing for?

For me, my Uechi Ryu is all about protecting myself and my family from an assault.

I am not going to war nor am I in law enforcement so it is all about personal protection.

I asked myself then: What are the elements of such an assault?

Fast: Little or no warning. The tactic most often used is an ambush (home invasion) or sucker punch.

Incendiary, brutal and intense: Often jumping to violence quickly. It can be loud and angry or silent and as hidden as possible. The aggressor wants to get what they want at little risk to themselves therefore often a very violent attack is the tool – remember the Russian video of the fifteen year old girl being mugged (stomped to death) outside of an elevator.

Total commitment to do you grievous bodily harm or lethal intent: They have no intention of stopping until you are in the hospital or dead. Violence is their tool to achieve their goal. You mean nothing to them or their goal is the enjoyment of your suffering. Either way your wellbeing is of no concern to them. Taking your ability to fight back is.

High chemical cocktail dump: The intensity, brutality and violence level of a real assault will kick in the chemical cocktail and all the physical and physiological reactions that result.

No sparring, this is not an agreed upon duel - it will be up close and personal immediately: An assault is not even a mutually agreed upon street fight. You do not move around at a distance waiting for an opportunity to attack, it will be Close Quarters Combat (CQC) immediately. Having said that, never say never, if the initial assault is repelled without taking the aggressor out you may end up at a distance but not disengaged from the assault and you will need to know how to close the distance and attack (this ability is also needed in multiple attack situations.) So still include sparring in your training.

You may be taken to the ground or knocked to the ground: You may end up on the ground while the aggressor(s) are still standing or the aggressor(s) may take you to the ground. This is a reality.

Possible multiple attackers: The types of people who assault you do not want a fight they want to hurt you therefore sucker punching and multiple attackers makes it “safer” for them. If they do this then they have experience and they know how to do it well. One occupies you while another blindsides you stomping your ankle into a pulp so you drop and they being to kick – a potentially lethal situation.

Possible Weapons: For the same reason as multiple attackers the aggressor want to hurt you with little threat to themselves so weapons gives them an advantage. Always assume a weapon is possible and if you are winning – very likely. If not one that is brought then one that is improvised.

Unpredictable Street attacks: While there are more and more trained people, or mimics, out there you will also encounter wild attacks and attacks not common to what is often thought of as “Traditional Asian Arts.” Patrick McCarthy’s “habitual acts of violence” is a great reference for Common Street attacks. Criminals train to take the advantage and this reality has to be prepared for.

There are a few common quotes to describe Uechi Ryu:

“Glare in your eye with fast hands.”

“Uechi Ryu should be able to be done in a phone booth.”

“Half hard / half soft.”

Although the last quote is the most common I have a reason for leaving it to the last.

The first quote reflects a reality approach.

“Glare in your eye” You must replace their intent to hurt you with your intent to stop them. Many video clips of an assault shows the victim being overwhelmed by the intent of the assault and then falling victim to the more damaging physical assault. You must be resolute in your intent to survive. Nothing can stop you from surviving not pain – nothing!

“With Fast Hands” Clearly a reflection upon the speed that a real assault takes place and the speed with which you must respond. All our training, Kata and drills, should be to develop fast strikes and responses.

“Uechi Ryu should be able to be done in a phone booth.” This is most likely a more modern twist on an old saying but it clearly demonstrates the CQC aspect of a real assault and that Uechi Ryu was designed to deal with it.

“Half hard / half soft.” I left this to the last because I believe it reflects the depth of training Uechi contains and is required to handle the “3%” of truly deadly people. Too much in this one to cover in this brief post.

So to meet the elements of a real assault I began with these elements of Uechi Ryu training.

Uechi Ryu is a Kata based system. We do not have anything written by the Okinawan founder Uechi Kanbun and anything prior to him is a mystery therefore anything after him had to be the best interpretations we could do. So, have your Kata then fit your goal.

In all training there must be a cohesive base of principles and techniques from which to draw and apply and, as stated previously, Uechi Ryu is a Kata based system.

Therefore all our principles and our techniques come from the Uechi Ryu Kata.

From there develop or add drills to your curriculum to enhance striking, movement, qinna and application under duress and adrenaline.

The first question is: What is the goal of your training? You may have more than one.

I’m a simpler guy so I have one goal, makes it easier for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:05 pm 
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Excellent thread, Rick, and thank you.

There should be enough here to keep a discussion going forever.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Excellent thread Rick. I must say that, way back when I began my very first martial arts experience as a young teenager, it was in response to being beat up on my way home from Junior High School one day. I was rather gangly, tall and thin. I went through several styles before running into Uechi Ryu in the early eighties. Shortly thereafter I began working at my Sheriffs Office as a corrections officer. I was immediately struck by the fact that Uechi Ryu fit the bill. Rarely in jail is there a lot of room to fight. There are no spinning "anything" thrown inside a cell. Or in a hallway. The average size area available is probably 5 x 5. You are usually outnumbered. Whatever happens to you is usually unexpected. I can't count the times during a cell fight when I had my arms, legs, shins banged against bars, doors and metal benches. Uechi, with it's conditioning helped me immensely even if I never struck a blow. I was never good at sparring. I didn't do a lot of it. I didn't have an aggressive personality. Most of my sparring was defensive in nature. Not sure where I got it (probably my life's mentality) but my fighting style was such that I would allow an attack to come in-maybe even absorb a blow depending on where it landed-then from in close would strike my opponent to disable part of them. I was never good at sparring for "points". I will say that there can be some good things drawn from sparring. I never had much fighting experience in life prior to that job, so Uechi sparring taught me that I could take a significant hit, kick, etc. and still survive, still be alive, be able to say "hey I'm ok" so I think there's a place for it. If it's realistic sparring. And my teacher, Rick Potrekus, and his school did teach realistic sparring. I can't remember a spinning anything, like I said. Uechi Ryu sparring to me was much different than any other style I had seen up to that point. There are some other styles that do teach body conditioning and more realistic sparring (i.e. no jumping, spinning, flying techniques).


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Great post, Steve and I agree completely with your comments on Uechi.

For self defence realities the first harsh truth I had to face was that there is no way to experience in a dojo, or any training, what real violence is all about.

That being said the best we can do is find ways to bring elements of reality to training and ``fake it`` as best we can.

As long as I kept in mind this isn`t the real deal then I hoped to stay on the path.

The other element that has to enter our training is a factor of safety. We can`t be crippling or killing each other and therefore there is no way to bring any training to the level of threat reality entails.
We all have to go to work the next day and earn to provide for our families so the ``reality`` of training is that it can be intense, harsh, even painful but it cannot be anything close to the brutality of someone wanting to slam a board with fishhooks in it up side your face to drag you off into an alley so they can rob you.

So always we have to keep in mind that training is training and reality is reality no matter how close we try and come.

For me this meant segmenting elements and trying to find additional drills to address them (at least attempted to in my mind).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:06 am 
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Here's another 'training element' that most do not practice
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If you are serious about self-defense, you should sit alone sometime, and really just imagine the whole encounter of an attack.

Imagine the screaming, the noise, the blood, the looks of horror from the bystanders, the lights and sirens, the handcuffs from the cops. Imagine getting asked the same questions countless times by cops and DA's, hoping to catch you in a lie.

Imagine sitting in a witness box in a courtroom, seeing the thug in a suit and tie, pretending he is your victim, rather than you being his. Imagine how you will explain how and why you did what you did.

Use clear, unambiguous language, and don't let on whatsoever that you now have any second thoughts. Don't change your story, and don't fill in any blanks trying to be "helpful" to the cops. If you do, the entire incident can be twisted to make you the bad guy.

If you can't go through all the above multiple times, to the point where it feels like you have already actually experienced these things, you will be behind the curve if the situation really does happen. Just like we practice drawing our weapons, so that if we have to do so, we don't fumble it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:49 am 
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Excellent comments Van.

One of the drills I have used and continue to use is called Night of the Living Dead (NLD). It is named this way based on the old Night of the Living Dead movie zombies and how they had to move very slowly.

This is an easy drill to incorporate into any training but not the easiest to do properly.

It meets certain conditions set out previously:

• It is safe because it is done at a slow speed -- no one should be injured. (I make a distinction between injured and banged up a little.)

• It introduces an element of surprise and unpredictability because the attack is underway before you get to respond and you will have no idea what the attack is.

• The aggressor’s intent is to work at the level of the drill but – they are to take you out.

• Because it is a surprise assault it happens up-close and personal CQC.

• It can also incorporate weapons and ground fighting and multiple attackers.

• I call this a soft adrenaline drill because there will be an adrenaline dump that takes place and by having to move slowly you will work towards controlling that dump.

• You will also be able to recognize your ‘freeze” and (hopefully) work on breaking that freeze.

• The drill is also designed to teach you to end the threat because if you don’t it won’t.

WARNINGS:

• The drill places you in a position of disadvantage and because of that it often gets messy – much like a real life assault.

• The first time people do this drill most hate it. They hate it because it is uncomfortable and often outside of what they are used to doing. Also they often do poorly – not near as successful as they hoped to be.

• Some will even question their training. They shouldn’t. The drill merely puts their training into a new situation and working the drill allows them to access their training and bring it into this new venue.

Here is a brief clip on what I call Soft Adrenaline training:

http://wpd-rc.com/blog/trailer-1/

Here is an explanation of the drill:

Night of the Living Dead (NLD) Drill

Introduction

 I was introduced to Night of the Living Dead (NLD) by Tony Blauer, a self protection expert and trainer in Montreal, as one small part of a seminar he was presenting on knife defence. Tony called it NLD because you move slowly like the attackers in the old horror movie. It was a great gift to my martial arts training that was beyond any expectation I could have had. I will always be grateful to Tony.

 I am sure Tony does many things with this drill that I did not have an opportunity to learn because it simply was not the focus of the seminar he was presenting. In working with NLD I waned to develop a methodology for teaching the self protection responses that I felt were the most effective. Therefore I developed the progression of phases (levels) presented here.

 Definitions:

 Aggressor: The person(s) attempting to assault another party.

 Respondent: The person the aggressor is attempting to assault.

 The respondent is always seeking to be successful.

 The role of the aggressor changes with the experience of the respondent.


Night Of the Living Dead Drill

A brief Description:

This drill is required to be done in slow motion as much as possible. The reasons for this are many.

 The first is safety because any defence is allowed.

 The second is subtler in that to move slowly in this drill requires you to control the adrenaline created by the drill. This helps train you to control that chemical cocktail dump that takes places during a self defence situation. This vital to surviving a street assault.

 Another reason this drill must be done in slow motion is that nothing is “pulled.” All strikes are taken through to their fullest extension. Because the strikes are being delivered slowly there is some requirement of the person being struck to evaluate the effectiveness of the blow and allow the proper anatomical response.

 One of the main reasons for slow motion is that we want to build into the natural responses a person has to being attacked an effective reaction. When moving at full speed the proper movements are not felt, opportunities are not seen, and the ability to sense and fill holes is extremely difficult to learn.


The Drill

1) The respondent closes their eyes and does not open them until the aggressor says “BEGIN”.

2) The aggressor begins an attack in slow motion and says begin part way into the attack. (The types of attacks can progress as well, however, it is highly recommended that you use the types of attacks found in the street and not in martial arts schools).

3) When the respondent hears “begin” they open their eyes and, in slow motion, begin to react.

4) If the respondent is unsuccessful it is beneficial to repeat the same attack until they find a way to succeed. This installs within them “success” in defending themselves. It does not leave them with the memory defending in an unsuccessful manner.

PROGRESSION

Phase 1 “Teaching Stopping the Aggressor”:

• The aggressor attacks and keeps coming until the respondent does something that would stop them (keep throwing attacks until the respondent does more than block – no pauses).

• After the respondent delivers a stopping reaction, they will continue to follow up their initial stopping move until they are safe.

• In this phase or level after the respondent uses an effective stopping move, the aggressor will not press another attack. The aggressor will simply respond anatomically to the balance of the respondent’s attacks.

• This allows the respondent to learn how to follow up with natural attacks that flow from one to the other.

Phase 2 “Filling your Holes”:

• The aggressor keeps coming until the respondent does something that would stop them (keep throwing attacks until the respondent does more than block – no pauses).

• After the respondent delivers a stopping reaction, they will continue to follow up their initial stopping move until they are safe.

• The change is that the aggressor will now fill any holes (point out faults or weaknesses) in the respondent’s follow up with a small touching strike. However, the aggressor will not push into this opening and take back the initiative of the attack. The aggressor will not press a new assault.

• The goal here is to teach the respondent where their holes are so that the can improve their follow up by eliminating them.

• The other purpose is to teach the aggressor to look for and find the holes. This will improve their self protection capacity.

Phase 3 “Filling the Holes and Pressing the Issue”:

• The aggressor keeps coming until the respondent does something that would stop them (keep throwing attacks until the respondent does more than block – no pauses).

• After the respondent delivers a stopping reaction, they will continue to follow up their initial stopping move until they are safe.

• The aggressor now will not only look for the holes in the respondent’s reactions but they will take back the initiative of the assault anytime the respondent leaves themselves open. The aggressor will press a new assault until the respondent once again reacts with a strong stopping action.

• However, once the respondent retakes control the aggressor will only take over again if the respondent leaves another hole.

Phase 4 “Surviving”:

• The aggressor keeps coming until the respondent does something that would stop them (keep throwing attacks until the respondent does more than block – no pauses).

• After the respondent delivers a stopping reaction, they will continue to follow up their initial stopping move until they are safe.

• In this phase both sides try to win. If the respondent does not stop the aggressor they will keep coming.

• If the respondent leaves a hole the aggressor will take back the initiative of the assault and press on to win.

• Both sides try to win while staying within the bounds of the drills requirement to evaluate the effectiveness of a reaction to gauge the appropriate response.

Phase 5 “Responding in the worst case”:

• This phase can be done with any level of the training. If a respondent has a hard time with it you would want to do the “worst case” starting again at phase one level of training and build them back up to phase/level four.

• The respondent does not start until they are actually being struck/grabbed. While any strike may take us out, this training tries to build in the mindset that you take it and fight on. It also teaches how to try and mitigate impacts.

Phase 6 “Blinded”:

• This phase can also be done with any level of the training. If a respondent has a hard time with it you would want to do the “worst case” starting again at phase one level of training and build them back up to phase/level four.

• This is very interesting; the respondent never opens their eyes. The attack begins just as in phase five with the actual strike/grab and the respondent must react the entire time with their eyes closed. This helps prepare someone for when the attack takes away their sight.

Phase 7 “Jazz It Up”:

• This phase can also be done with any level of the training. If a respondent has a hard time with it you would want to do the “worst case” starting again at phase one level of training and build them back up to phase/level four.

• Jazz it up anyway you would like. We have done the drill with weapons, multiple aggressors, the respondent only having the use of one arm, and in complete darkness.

• One other way we have done this drill is have a number of respondents stand in a circle with their eyes closed. An aggressor moves among them and when they say begin everyone opens their eyes and the person being attacked defends themselves. The more the aggressor walks around the higher the level of anxiety and adrenalin.

Phase 8 “All out”:

• At this stage you will go as fast as you can as long as you can:

1. “See” everything still.
2. Have total control of what you are doing.
3. Both move at the same speed.

Other Important Points

Notes about the Drill:

 One learning point you may want to keep in mind and use is that, if the respondent is unsuccessful in a defence, the aggressor repeats the same assault until they are. This teaches the successful reaction to the respondent by ending with a successful memory.

 There is an acting (role play) element to this drill as the participants must gage the damage a technique might do to them and respond in a correct anatomical manner.

 Every attack must be extended through the target to show the effects. Done in slow speed this should a perfectly safe exercise even when otherwise dangerous techniques are being used.

 Maintaining the slow motion is excellent training to control adrenaline. I have referred to it as soft adrenaline training. (I’m thinking Tony Blauer’s HIGHGEAR would be hard adrenaline training.) As you gain control and experience you can speed the drill up, however, done too soon not only decreases the safety factor but reduces the learning capacity.

 You will find that maintaining that slow speed will be one of the hardest things to do, but do it. The aggressor has a great deal of control here.

 The respondent must learn to accept mistakes and turn them around rather than speeding up to avoid them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Rick I tried to watch the trailer but it said I had to be a subscriber.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Thanks Rick, I recall the drills from previous discussions….great stuff to practice in addition to Uechi's standard curricula.

The way you present the drills in well detailed stages is the best yet.

You might recall that some people reading this forum have a problem with the classification of some trainers as 'experts' _ Oh well…maybe yes and maybe not.

I was thinking maybe it is better to refer to some trainers as a 'specialist' in certain aspects of dealing with violence.

One other reason why these modified drills work well, when taught properly as you do…is because the defensive, responding actions_ are mostly congruent, physically and conceptually, with techniques that naturally flow from a practiced system deeply seated in our 'muscle memory' if you will. If the techniques were to depart radically from what we practice constantly…then their effectiveness plunges.

One other approach I am fond of practicing these days is the concept, well planted in Uechi, of moving off the line of attack, using the 'spring loading' and release concept we se in sanchin and other kata_ at the basic 3-9-11-12- 5-7 o'clock directions. The 12 o'clock also reserved for pre-emption.

In deadly force training from empty hands to 'cover' to weapons, this is referred to as 'exploding off the X' …widely followed concept…when dealing with incoming deadly force with knives, blunt weapons or pulled guns.

At our dojo, we were lucky once to have Wes Tasker come up for a seminar on the Pekiti Tirsia 'take off' _with the base of solid footing, which we have in Uechi/sanchin…aided by our system's 'dipping' of the shoulders and leading by the head, that can give us an effective spring loaded 'take off' avoiding attack lines…as the body will follow the head.

Seeing Wes move was akin to imagine fighting a ghost always appearing at your sides or shoulders behind.

The dipping shoulders following the head leave us in a great coiled position to launch an attack or counter from defensively or exploded offensively.

Combine this with impact training, body conditioning, and we have a winner.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6ZMeRsh ... 2C&index=5

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Thanks for the comments Van.

I agree with your comments that Uechi is an excellent platform to work from and often Uechi folk do very well the first time out -- the Uechika in Nova Scotia had a blast with it.

Hi Steve:

You shouldn't need a subscription to view it?

Try going to the main page then "previews" to select it: http://wpd-rc.com/

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Quote
"You might recall that some people reading this forum have a problem with the classification of some trainers as 'experts' _ Oh well…maybe yes and maybe not."

Yeah Van I do, but please understand I have always valued your judgement and opinions, and I have learned a great deal from coming to your forum for about the last 10 years.
However :)
As you know I used to work for a prosections department, for about 25 year. A couple of years back I had an epiphany. I realised that a lot of the folks giving out their opinions really did not have the same kind of access to information that I had. Most folks in law enforcement etc are very circumspect about what they do. and with good reason.
A lot of the more enquiring minds in martial arts want to dig deeper, they want an edge, an understanding which is highly commendable. Really that is what martial arts are all about, however people make assumptions sometimes based on false information given entirely innocently.

I'll give a few examples. In my country people assume that handguns are banned, it's not an issues because a lot of people are not interested in them and did not own one anyway. Now when I say ASSUMPTION.this is taken as a God given fact, and the politicians want this.If the true facts came out it would make a Mockery of gun laws in the UK because guns are banned except in the most violent place in the kingdom, Northern Ireland where you can carry a fully loaded handgun without a permit .I'm surprised that someoen frome the NRA hasn't jumped on this fact.maybe they are as jooped as we are.

Another few assumptions " A fight always goes to the ground".No it doesn't it would be truer to say that a fight never goes to the ground

Now Patrick mCcarthy is a very knowledgable and well meaning martial artist, and I do really value what he says and I love his interpretation of karate.however his 36 acts of habitual violence 8O ............did he ever ask a cop or somebody with access to legal records what goes on?. Generally there are only 4 acts of habitual violence, they are swinging right punch, swinging left punch, groin kick, headbutt and not in that order, in any order you can think off usually with lots of disractions as well.if you think in terms of 36 it's too much, better to concentrate on the 4 most common...not saying you might not get one of the others but much less likely than those first 4.
another one for the books " You'll always get cut in a knife fight"..if you are unlucky.but not born out by the facts Most people when they see a knife get so pumped that they grab the knife hand.under stress, chemical cocktail.the grip strength increases by 3 times ( I think)

oh and for the record.as a self defence system Uechi is one of the best.( along with most Southern Chinese styles IMHO )


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Hi Jorvik - it has been a while.

I have read that Mr. McCarthy did a lot of research and work with others while forming his list (which I am sure was meant to be as inclusive as possible so that he was not criticised for leaving something out) but in all honesty I cannot say for certain what it entailed.

Luckily you can ask him yourself at:

patrick_mccarthy@mac.com

It really is just about throwing as much at people as you can so they can learn to respond in the most simple fashion no matter what is handed them.

From Rory Miller:

But if you can deal with surprise and deal with chaos, the rest of training is cake.

You need to learn how to move someone else's body.
You need to learn how to move yours.
You need to learn how to generate power.
You need to learn where the good targets are and how to hit them with your eyes closed. (Not kidding here. If you can't fight blindfolded you can't fight with blood in your eyes).

That's it, really.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:12 pm 
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I wasn't referring to you in particular, Ray…you are only one of the people I had in mind…but thank you.

If we haven't touched upon this particular aspect of the term 'expert' let us address it now.

It is all about the legal definition of the term 'expert' and the context in which it is used…the reason why 'specialist' may, at times, be a better expression.

My work is all about legal investigations, gathering evidence, and preparing the case for trial in association with defense counsel, if the case doesn't make it through dispute resolution.

Defense counsel will recommend the use of an 'expert' to look at a case, early during the 'prep process' with a view to court acceptance if in fact there will be a trial, but also as a powerful 'discovery weapon' …to determine what the chances of success really is at trial …or whether a case must be settled to avoid economic disaster for the client... and in this instance...the opinion of the expert will serve as money 'leverage' in settling the case.

Expert witnesses are persons who are qualified, either by actual experience or by careful study, to form definite opinions with respect to a division of science, a branch of art, or a department of trade. The law deems persons having no such experience or training to be incapable of forming accurate opinions or drawing correct conclusions.

Thus, if scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will assist the Trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue, a witness qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education, may testify in the form of an opinion or otherwise.

Courts do not apply a rigid rule in determining whether a particular witness is qualified to testify as an expert. Instead, an expert's qualifications are normally evaluated on a witness-by-witness basis, according to the facts and issues of each case.

Several courts have stated that the true criterion in determining the qualification of expert witnesses is not whether they employ their knowledge and skill professionally or commercially, but whether the jury can receive appreciable help from them on the particular subject in issue.

Many courts also require the witness to exhibit sufficient knowledge of the subject matter before his or her opinion to go to the jury.

The qualifications of an expert witness must be carefully scrutinized by courts to guard against charlatans who may give erroneous testimony without a sound foundation.

Most courts will more closely scrutinize the qualifications of witnesses seeking to testify as experts if they have never been found qualified to give expert testimony on a prior occasion.

This is the legal view in criminal and civil cases, or a combination of both exposures to a client, such as vehicular homicide, as one example…where there will be criminal prosecution and civil litigation.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:10 pm 
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I kind of agree with Ray as a starting point

his big four are pretty valid , but its not an only or situation

I think interpreting Mccarthys HAPV as 36 responses to 36 acts is pretty limited , in fact we then do left and right , then we do variations on the headlocks then etc etc you quickly end up with many many many responses .....

but that would be missing the point

were not talking 36 responses , were talking 36 common attacks , and its not many, youll find your responses doubling up pretty quickly , the list grows but what works gets refined.

our job is to find the simplest common principles/techniques/tactics to deal with as many of these moves as possible .

for me thats kata , the ingrained muscle memory laden practice , then reinforced by partner work intorducing the HAPV into partner work , wether its initial two man drills , or moving to something more sophisticated like the NLD drill , or free fighting in soft and harwork variations .

You need to look at your system if your a traditional martial artist , Sanchin 3 conflicts ? the positional covers and mechanics alignments and power generation

Seisan 13 moves ? , counter grappling , extrapolation of sanchin into more directions angles and manipulations .

Sanseiryu 36 ? ..... extrapolation of the moves building on the rules , more variation of the systems principles , have you plugged the whole 36 HAPV in by now ?

all of these variations coming from the basic , from sanchin , so your not collecting more moves but greater understanding and interpretation of the basic , whys , hows , whats (the HAPV or whatever you choose) , and do some serious introspection and study into awareness , ethos and tactics and stress management and you can even start to come up with the when and whos ......

the ideal being as much repsonse you can get for the smallest principles

it doesnt intellectually get easier but it should get simpler physically and literally


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 416
and the numbers are just numbers , there important to buddisim and chinese culture from what i understand

same with McCarthys list , nothing sacred , But you have to consider it in its researched perspective , in the tactics and strategys from works such as the bubishi and training in classical chinese martial arts that were adopted by many in the okinawan styles (theres even been a few rumours as Kanbun as a Okinawan bubishi source but I doubt it)

but its as good as ive ever found , so its a good starting point , you could start from Rays four if you choose .

its about approach

you can add and add , knife , stick , gun , multiples , are you buiding on common principles , strategys , it all becomes angles , force , movement , joint mass centre etc etc .

we can argue the realitys of this stuff till the cows come home , but identify the problem , recreate it , learn to deal with it , reference it to a common tool box ...... research rinse repeat , question ..... anyone got a better process ?


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