Uechi-Ryu.com

You are right Marcus.

I don’t have an argument with Ray’s point.

If any disagreement exists it is between Ray and Mr. McCarthy -- Although I don’t actually think there would be much disagreement over the four mentioned by Ray.

I just know that when doing the drill the more you throw the more stuff sloughs off to leave the simple responses.

Often doing the drill people struggle with what to throw at their partner next and Mr. McCarthy’s list is just a nice place to start.

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Rick Wilson - http://wpd-rc.com/

On the subject of expert or specialist – whichever is appropriate on these forums is fine by me.

I don’t consider myself an expert in anything – I’m just a guy trying to figure the most efficient and effective way to do things.

Some stuff is working for me and some stuff hasn’t.

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Rick Wilson - http://wpd-rc.com/

The bottom line in all these discussions is the simple truth that the only way to check violence in progress, where the victim can neither hide nor flee, is by equal or greater force in a timely manner along the gamut of empty hands to weapons.

As we train and learn, we continue to realize deep inside that this journey is a complex one, and we are nothing more than perennial students despite what we think we know and how we know it.

Learning comes to us in many ways...

Here's one other suggestion...read the fabulous book by Lt David Grossman..."On combat"...and discuss on the forum what you think his concepts teach us.

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Van

Now still briefly on the subject of 'experts' or 'specialists'...surely there will be questions like...who is this Grossman...what's he got to offer that we already have etc.

What makes this guy an 'expert' to repeat this 'ugly word' to some?

http://www.killology.com/bio.htm

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Van

Something else that needs to be added to the basic list of attacks that Ray brought up...is the 'takedown'...

In many cases, if you are dealing with an enraged opponent, in particular, expect a charge/takedown. This is even more prevalent in the US where kids grow up playing American football.

Again as to 'experts' ...keep in mind that this expression denotes someone possessing a certain 'expertise' in a given field.

An 'expert' usually means someone who is qualified by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education.

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Van

Take Mas Ayoob for example, which Maloney and I also trained under for deadly force tactics.

I have mentioned his name very often on the forum, referring to him as an 'expert'…

Let's see what qualifies him

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Van

Here's another 'expert' I am fond of...the writer of some deep reaching articles on human behavior in combat.

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Van

Pretty sobering indeed.

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Van

Quote
"Now still briefly on the subject of 'experts' or 'specialists'...surely there will be questions like...who is this Grossman...what's he got to offer that we already have etc.

What makes this guy an 'expert' to repeat this 'ugly word' to some?"

I think that you are missing my point, I don't have a problem with Mr.Grossman being an expert in Psychology, never did have...but does that make him knowledgeable on say Football? of course it doesn't. That is the problem, because somebody uses work by Grossman et al to try to gain credibility. Look at what the person does, be it night club bouncer,policeman whatever and then ask your self what part of his job gives him the skills of a psychologist. It's like with Mr.McCathy, I have no problem with him, but what in his job gives him the knowledge on street crime and basic methods of assault. The borders become grey in these areas and people assume because someone can write about the psychology of a criminal that they have some academic knowledge on the subject.when in truth they don't, it's just an opinion....look at that bouncer we were talking about, the one who looks like a mugger. I have had dealings with bouncers, professionally.....I think I have said this, some of them sell drugs, beat their wives and children.and have killed people, and beaten the crap out of defenceless drunken teenagers....and yet you get them telling you about self defence, giving courses ,writing books..and in this guys case he is telling you the exact opposite of just about every leo who has written about the subject of self defence.
I am not getting at anybody on this forum, or even Mr.McCarthy.....I am just saying, ask the question what does this guy do? what do I know about what he does? can I make a valid judgement based on what I know sufficient to include his ideas in my mindset or, at the least to look at them......with Grossman, yeah sure go ahead I would .but I have no intention of killing anyone just yet, so It may be a bit irrelevant for me.

No, I think you are missing the point Ray. Why don't you do what Rick suggested and write directly to McCarthy asking how he arrived at his conclusions?

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Van

Ray,

For the last time...I am talking about concepts that become useful to anyone in confrontations. Again, we have been down this primrose path before and it is getting tiresome.

As to Grossman

Nobody here is interested in 'killing anybody yet' ...

The information and education this research by Grossman imparts on any reader is indeed priceless. Have you read it? Why don't you read it and then post your views of what you read on the forum?

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Van

Ray do you disagree with any part of the HAPV list specifically, or is it just the idea of someone sharing there work and being acknowledged an expert you have issue with?

Because in context of the thread were missing the forest for the trees

As I said before Mr. McCarthy’s list is a nice reference for those who aren’t sure what to attack with to work from for the drill.

The point of this thread is to discuss ways we can, within our worlds, address the training of self defence realities. Is it possible? What can we do?

If Ray would like to take the discussion in another direction I hope he will show the courtesy of beginning a separate thread on that subject where the issues he wishes to explore can be delved into at whatever depth he wants. I am sure there would be others interested as well.

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Rick Wilson - http://wpd-rc.com/

Rorys quote is nice , just because its simplified , its a huge topic violence and self protection , but you need to boil it down

basic fundamentals , orientation and understanding , decision making and ethos , intention and action

all JIMHO

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"The point of this thread is to discuss ways we can, within our worlds, address the training of self defence realities. Is it possible? What can we do?"

ok, self defence is really easy when you don't attach morals to it. From the perspective of awerness you need to know your threats, you need to know how you will react to these threats, and that can be quite surprising...I can't travel in commercial airliners as it really freaks me out, yet I've been in a plane and done aerobatics and I was totally unphased.so it's not all cut and dried......for the basics you need to be able to move and strike, best accomplished with hook and jab pads, you don't need to use boxing techniques although they are probably the easiest at first, you need to condition yourself to a certain level, for me that is usually 2 to 3 minutes of continuous punching or striking.I do this by using handweights of different weights and I do a 100 punches with each weight and I have 2 different weights, then I do 100 with just my hands, then I use poor bob 2 minute rounds, usually 1 or 2.now that is my base level, when I train harder I up the rounds to as much as 5, it depends a lot on my mood and what I'm doing .if I don't do the gym I do 100 pushups usually in rounds of 20 or 30.I have built up to 80 outright but not in recent years, and 100 situps...............What works? .from personal experience. jab, straight and hook, headbutt knee strike to head, high roundhouse to jaw, back spin kick to head. , punch to carotid sinus , Anything else I haven't tried.oh and I don't believe sticks made of rattan are any good, because when my dog was attacked I hit the other dog with a walking stick made of rattan and it didn't seem to bother it.
other stuff that I do, which I don't know if it would work or not because it hasn't been tested in a confrontation, but I think would work are the hsing i punch that I know, the wing chun punch, which is actually very similar if done correctly....quite a bit of limb destruction techniques and moving bodies from Dumog and based on the centre line principle and a lot of joint locking techniques from Aiki and Chi na.......the real thing is the effort that you put into your training..you need a desperation or fierceness.they both look very similar