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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:34 am 
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Good post.

"From the perspective of awerness you need to know your threats, you need to know how you will react to these threats, and that can be quite surprising..."

I agree completely so then a great discussion would be how to work on awareness, how to learn your threats, and what can you do to learn how you might react to try and reduce that surprise (because I agree until tested it's just the best we can do).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:49 am 
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Ray,

Sadly it seems to me that the more things change the more they stay the same. I was hoping that this time, allowing you back on my forum; discussions could take a different flavor other than what they have been in the past.

On this forum, as the moderator, I expect that conversations flow in the direction I want. What you personally do training wise is seen as self aggrandizement while at once being critical of persons I outline qualifications of_ rather than addressing the specific concepts they espouse _for debate.

So again, proceed in these suggested directions and do not post language that can be perceived personally offensive to any of them.

If you don't _then you will force me to bring these discussions to an abrupt end.

I love having you back on the forum, Ray, but the tone of your arguments needs to change.

Here's an example: If the reading of concepts arising out of real life situational experiences and studies, as written by some of the individuals I mention_ such as a McCarthy and a Rory Miller etal _ have no value_ then why would the police reports that you have read and filed, when working with the police, have any value to you personally?

This is precisely the reason why I want to focus the discussions on those concepts.

So let's stay with the concepts, Ray…OK?

At this point I am trying to be very reasonable.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:03 am 
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Here's a good tip on evasive driving by police one.

http://www.policeone.com/vehicle-incide ... e-driving/

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:16 am 
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http://seattletimes.com/flatpages/video ... 5855483001

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:03 am 
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Your video clips are always informative, Van.

Awareness?

Looking at it from the end pragmatic point, awareness is the front line of self protection. Training awareness therefore is primary.

In one book on Ueshiba O’Sensei it stated that he had a standing offer of a teacher’s certificate to anyone who could catch him unaware. No one ever did. When asked if he had ever been caught unaware he responded that yes, when he was a young man hurrying on an errand a woman stepped out of a shop and directly into him. He had been caught completely unaware and from that moment knew he could never be caught again because had she been an attacker……….

A long while ago there was a thread about a practitioner coming out the back door of his work and being jumped and beaten. He had been tired and was focused on locking up properly and caught unaware.

I am sure each and every one of us can think of moments where we “snap too” realizing our awareness had dropped off for a moment (or more) and had we been ambushed at that point then it would not have gone well for us either.

How often are we tired or distracted?

Awareness is something we need to train.

We can take some easy steps like not texting or being on a cell or having our hearing cut off by earphones.

We can work at being alert and counting every time we “snap too” or bump into someone.

What happened?

Why were we caught unaware?

How can we prevent it from happening again?

Are we reducing the number of times it happens?

You can work at cataloguing observations in your mind.

I heard of one drill where when you enter a room you close your eyes briefly (not the most aware state) and see what you recall about the room and those in it.

What other thoughts are there?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:10 am 
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My approach is to train mindfulness

I try to maintain awareness and not be distracted, in training and daily life, I try to take in a much from my senses as I can, and not be distracted by thought, but aware of it and aware of what I'm currently experiencing.

There are so many school of thought on this better than mine, buy its really just active meditation and consciousness work

Being observant, studying people, and looking with a beginners mind and not knowing


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:49 am 
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Stryke wrote:
My approach is to train mindfulness

I try to maintain awareness and not be distracted, in training and daily life, I try to take in a much from my senses as I can, and not be distracted by thought, but aware of it and aware of what I'm currently experiencing.

There are so many school of thought on this better than mine, buy its really just active meditation and consciousness work

Being observant, studying people, and looking with a beginners mind and not knowing


Good post. Attended a Tony Blauer seminar and he described himself as being in "Bodyguard Mode" when out and about. Not looking for trouble but always being aware. Good mindset to maintain at all times.

Also recall something in one of Rory Miller's books about those who work and deal with real violence as opposed to those of us who haven't. Not sure what book it is, but he said that unfortunately real violence is the best teacher and we can only imagine how we would respond if we were there. Because of this I felt Ray's denigration of bouncers in the UK was irrelevent. Whether guys like Lee Morrison, Geoff Thompson, and others are bouncers/good guys/ bad guys/whetever is irrelevent to me. They certainly have something to teach us who haven't experienced real violence too often.

Rory Miller's book "Talking Them Through" has been a staple of mine and i review in a lot. I work in mental health and we cannot harm our patients who become violent, (like karate "no first strike"),so it's a scary spot to be in because a pre-emptive strike is a great equalizer.

Read a lot of the stuff that's out there on this topic and Rory Miller's stuff is the best I've come across.Something I've come to realize is that uechi ryu is a great base for all of this stuff that is reality based and is a great style to cross train from. I try to train in two modes, karate do for health,physical improvement, balance, mental improvement, camraderie and as a lifestyle.Cross training has caused the light to go on as far as the practical side of what we should be capable of if we need to use our training for self protection.

We talk a lot about how we would handle this and that type of threat and what we "would" do if threatened or what we "did" do years ago when in high school, college, in our 20's or whatever.
We need to train for who we are now.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:17 pm 
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Stryke->Being observant, studying people, and looking with a beginners mind and not knowing-

Josann_>Attended a Tony Blauer seminar and he described himself as being in "Bodyguard Mode" when out and about. Not looking for trouble but always being aware.

Good points…something cultivated from primal instincts devoid of paranoia. Ever -Wonder why samurais could sense someone behind a door ready to kill?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Josann[quote]Also recall something in one of Rory Miller's books about those who work and deal with real violence as opposed to those of us who haven't. Not sure what book it is, but he said that unfortunately real violence is the best teacher and we can only imagine how we would respond if we were there. Because of this I felt Ray's denigration of bouncers in the UK was irrelevant. Whether guys like Lee Morrison, Geoff Thompson, and others are bouncers/good guys/ bad guys/whatever is irrelevant to me. They certainly have something to teach us who haven't experienced real violence too often.[/quote]

Precisely, Josann...good thinking.

We really are students on perennial basis in life.

As such, in self protection training, we can learn from the good guys and the bad guys alike... Additionally, it won't score any points for any of us, to denigrate personalities and their qualifications openly on a forum, especially when not possessing all the information as to how these people arrived at their conclusions.

This _ simply_ I will not allow here.

As you say, it is always best to address the violence concepts while getting an education on possible ways to deal with them from anyone, in any manner, who is respected in the field.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Josann
Quote:
We talk a lot about how we would handle this and that type of threat and what we "would" do if threatened or what we "did" do years ago when in high school, college, in our 20's or whatever.
We need to train for who we are now.


I agree...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Al little more on the NLD drill.

Before you begin any drill you must identify what I call the “Safety Failure.”

This isn’t where safety fails, it is the built in failure of the drill to ensure safety. Every drill has them or people would not live through training.

For NLD it is the lack of real timing and more time to think than real life will ever give you.

At the same time the time to think is where the learning is to take place.

As I say in the clip you do not teach a person to hit a baseball throwing fast balls you start by lobbing them slowly.

NLD is designed to allow certain responses be taught.

All drills teach certain skills. Which of those skills is more “us” we may not be know within the drills, unless you designed them to fit you.

In NLD what is more natural to you will come to the surface. The tools you are more comfortable with come to the surface.

One common comment is "I keep doing the same move" – well if it keeps working – keep doing it.

NLD allows thinking where in a real assault there is no time – the reason is so that your thinking is done before the real assault.

IF a student does a great intial move to stop the threat but is stalled because they have no idea what to do next then Level 1 of the drill allows them time to discern the next step be it hit or run. Once this skill is achieved the the drill can move up and beyond that level where any pause is filled by the attacker.

Every drill will have a Safety Failure and your job, when doing the drill, is to know what it is and be aware of it.

(Hey Josann - good to hear from you!)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:04 am 
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Excellent post, Rick.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:31 am 
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The other aspect I like about the NLD drill is to train from a loss position.

If we always train by making the most optimum move then we have to hope that is how the real world lets it happen.

The real world doesn’t tend to do that.

Predators are in the business of taking something from you so they use the most efficient and effective methods they can – surprise and overwhelming force. Sounds like most tactical missions.

So the odds are you may be placed in a losing situation with the initial assault and have to fight back from there.

I tend to work a lot drills with the aggressor having some advantage – sometimes a lot of advantage.

If real life works out differently – wonderful.

If not then perhaps I have done something to prepare.

NLD gives the aggressor as much advantage as you want.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Quote
"We talk a lot about how we would handle this and that type of threat and what we "would" do if threatened or what we "did" do years ago when in high school, college, in our 20's or whatever.
We need to train for who we are now."

Absolutely.I can't kick now because of arthritis.but my upper body strength is probably greater than when I was in my 20's.that attitude sounds defeatist to me.......
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"If we are afraid of the task, then we will always fail"

Mas Oyama


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Try the KIMS game here to sharpen observation skills...


http://science.howstuffworks.com/sniper10.htm

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